News Decline and fall of the Nobel Peace Prize

[russ_watters]

I'm wondering where George HW Bush's and Ronald Reagan's peace prizes are. Reagan's carrot-and-stick approach helped end the cold war. Bush pulled together an unprecidented international coalition (which included Russia!) to kick Iraq out of Kuwait and helped finalize a treaty that cut the worlds' nuclear weapons count in half.

 

[Hurkyl]

Quite honestly, I had a better opinion of PF. I can not believe what I just read. How is it helpful to come up with such insulting comparisons ?

What is to be gained by playing along with the farce? The prize committee has overspent whatever political capital they might have had as dispensers of a prize allegedly recognizing achievement -- they've earned their mockery.

 

[humanino]

What is to be gained by playing along with the farce?

What is to be lost in failing to support a Nobel peace prize recipient ?
What if the most influential nation let's their best (for the rest of the world at least) outcome in a decade down ?

 

[Hurkyl]

What is to be lost in failing to support a Nobel peace prize recipient ?

I just want to be clear here -- you do realize that the primary focus of this thread is to condemn the Nobel prize committee for their appalling behavior?

Sure, there has been some criticism of world leaders going along with it, Obama has received some sympathy for having been put in a difficult position and some criticism for accepting -- but these are tangential to the central topic in this thread.

 

[humanino]

you do realize that the primary focus of this thread is to condemn the Nobel prize committee for their appalling behavior?

Is that so ?

He lost my respect.

 

[CRGreathouse]

The Nobel Peace Prize would have lost my respect if I had any respect for it. But Obama's acceptance doesn't bother me; it's a 'rock-and-hard-place' situation for him.

 

[OmCheeto]

I think http://nobelprize.org/alfred_nobel/will/will-full.html" would have approved of the nomination and award:

I, the undersigned, Alfred Bernhard Nobel, do hereby, after mature deliberation, declare the following to be my last Will and Testament with respect to such property as may be left by me at the time of my death:

...

The whole of my remaining realizable estate shall be dealt with in the following way: the capital, invested in safe securities by my executors, shall constitute a fund, the interest on which shall be annually distributed in the form of prizes to those who, during the preceding year, shall have conferred the greatest benefit on mankind. The said interest shall be divided into five equal parts, which shall be apportioned as follows:

...

and one part to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses.

I really don't think a bowl of mashed potatoes, people who promote schools, anyone who isn't Bush, San Francisco, nor Fred the dog qualify.

 

[russ_watters]

I suppose you're right: he would have approved of the award if the other nominees were a bowl of mashed potatoes or Fred the Dog. But I tend to doubt he would have approved of Obama over someone who has actually done something.

Either way, it's a pretty sad state the world political community is in if "the most or best" is someone who thus far has done nothing beyond give a handful of speeches! Is it any wonder the US is the political leader of the world, when that's all it takes?!

 

[arildno]

Brenner in NY Times has a ready-made acceptance speech for Obama to be delivered the 10. of December.

In this speech, Obama may reflect of the fact that he has been "thorbjorned":
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/opinion/11brenner.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

 

[arildno]

What is to be lost in failing to support a Nobel peace prize recipient ?
What if the most influential nation let's their best (for the rest of the world at least) outcome in a decade down ?

Well, tell that to the Copts in Egypt.

Obama had a golden chance in Cairo this year to condemn the then-ongoing harassment of the Copts, where the livelihoods of many were stripped away by the Government's insane decision to kill off all the pigs in the country.

You might also ask why the US Government has recently pressured the Armenians to make a treaty with Turkey without Turkey being pressured to recognize the massacres of Armenians under the late Ottoman Empire.

 

[Hepth]

Just to play devil's advocate, if not President Obama, who else "during the preceding year" has "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." in your opinion?

Again, I'm not agreeing with their decision, but is there someone else who was nominated that you believe should have won?

I ask this merely to broaden my knowledge of who was in the running and what they have accomplished. (AGAIN, not that Obama has accomplished all that much)

 

[Office_Shredder]

Of course that's a trick question Hepth, because the list of nominees is not released until at least 50 years after the prize is given out :p

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I wish to congratulate the Nobel committee for their inspired and insightful decision to award President Obama this prestigious award. Never before have we seen a political leader who can inspire the people of all nations as Obama has. But more than that, Obama changed the wayward course of the most powerful nation on Earth virtually overnight. His first act was to reach out to all people of the world. He made it clear that we offer and open hand rather than a clenched fist. He changed the tone of the global conversation in order to create an atmosphere in which peace is possible.

Obama has ended the use of torture and closed the CIA’s secret prisons. He is also working hard to close Guantanamo. Through these acts he demonstrates that America is not hopelessly lost; that once again we will strive to meet the standards of decency that we expect not only of ourselves, but of all nations. He spoke honestly and earnestly to the people of the Middle East and admitted that we have made mistakes. He dropped the self-righteous pretense that the US in infallible. He showed the world that we are willing to change. He also made it clear that all nations bear the burden of history; that we must all admit to our faults and move on.

The significance of these acts alone cannot be overstated. Under Bush we showed the world that we are a nation of fear and reactionaries. We showed that we are to be feared, not trusted. We showed that even invading a country on false pretense carries no liability. We showed that we are reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

The Nobel committee clearly recognizes that in order for peace to be possible on any number of fronts, the US must be engaged as a trusted member of the global community. They also recognize that as a once-in-a-lifetime leader, Obama’s efforts will be well-served though this special recognition. While Obama hasn’t yet parted the Red Sea or walked on water, no reasonable person expected that he could change the world overnight. However, through his dedication and brilliance, during his two terms of office he will almost certainly change the world in ways that are profound and lasting.

A number of people have been mentioned who may be worthy of this award. But along with deeds and desires of individuals is the global significance of their efforts. Perhaps someone working to bring peace to some little corner of the world is deserving of a Nobel Prize, but the significance of their efforts is limited in the global sense. Clearly this matters or an award would be given every year. Obama has the potential to affect all people of all nations. He has the ability to change the world and he is working hard to do so. For this reason he cannot be compared to all who work for change and peace. He is the leader of the most powerful nation on earth. For this reason, Obama matters more than the others mentioned.

So in recognition for what Obama has done and for what he is working to do, I applaud this award whole heartedly. I also applaud the Nobel committee for recognizing greatness. But I think the Nobel committee did miss the target. I think the award should have gone to the 69,456,897 Americans who elected Obama; thus changing the destiny of not only this nation, but also the destiny of the world. Congratulations to us.

 

[arildno]

He made it clear that we offer and open hand rather than a clenched fist.

Did he offer that open hand to the Copts, who had their livelihoods destroyed by a bigoted Egyptian government?

 

[cristo]

While Obama hasn’t yet parted the Red Sea or walked on water, no reasonable person expected that he could change the world overnight. However, through his dedication and brilliance, during his two terms of office he will almost certainly change the world in ways that are profound and lasting.

So now you're calling comparing Obama to a god? Wow! Sure, he seems a good leader, but all the things you mention that he's done thus far are things that any other leader of a western democracy would do. The US should not have allowed secret torture prisons in the first place. Giving him a nobel prize to close them should be accompanied with giving nobel prizes to leaders of every other democratic country for not opening them in the first place.

So in recognition for what Obama has done and for what he is working to do, I applaud this award whole heartedly. I also applaud the Nobel committee for recognizing greatness. But I think the Nobel committee did miss the target. I think the award should have gone to the 69,456,897 Americans who elected Obama; thus changing the destiny of not only this nation, but also the destiny of the world. Congratulations to us.

There were far more deserving candidates, some who actually endured a risk to their life to try and avert evil, who were overlooked. It's quite clear that this was a political award!

Sorry Ivan, but your post comes across as that of an American who believes that his country is the centre of the world-- it is not. As for congratulating 'yourselves', well, that's just amazingly vain!

 

[mheslep]

...He is also working hard to close Guantanamo...

That's rename (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111855836" ), not close.

 

[mheslep]

...The significance of these acts alone cannot be overstated...

Yes it is difficult, but you should not be deterred; someone must try to overstate none the less. If adjectives won't get 'er done, perhaps try linking in some background http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/archive/Classical/Romantic-Period/Entry-of-the-Gods-into-Valhalla-from-Das-Rheingold/281712" .

 

[OmCheeto]

I think the award should have gone to the 69,456,897 Americans who elected Obama; thus changing the destiny of not only this nation, but also the destiny of the world. Congratulations to us.

Dreadful idea Ivan. Even limiting us to 30 seconds apiece, it would take over 66 years to get through all the acceptance speeches. Not to mention the administrative costs of us each donating our 2 cents to charity would probably run into the trillions.

 

[Count Iblis]

He may be doing a decent job as president, but that's all he's done so far, nothing extraordinary or special, and nothing that has brought peace to anyone anywhere.

Obama has done a lot. Perhaps it is because the Americans don't care about the relevant issues that they don't see this. E.g.:

1) An unprecendented move toward nuclear disarmement has been made. For many many years the US rejected such suggestions. This makes it possible to strengthen the NPT.


2) The US has reset relations with Russia and China. The US will not boss these countries around by exploiting other issues. E.g. the missile shield in Poland has been scrapped for pragmatic reasons. The Bush administration always made it clear that it was meant against the Iranian missile threat, yet when Obama scrapped it because that threat wil not materialize anytime soon, the criticism against this decision from the Right was that the US has now lost a pawn against Russia that the US could have used to make Russia vote "the right way" in the UNSC.


3) Point 2) means that the US sees Russia and China as equal partners in solving World problems diplomatically. E.g., in case of Iran, the US will participate on he basis of the commonly agreed principle that Iran should not produce nuclear weapons. The US will not pursue its own domestic agenda of imposing more restrictions on Iran. E.g. Obama has stopped talking about this issue like Bush did: "Iran must stop to enrich uranium". Instead Iran is now invited to make the proposals itself that will allow the World to verify that their program is peaceful.

This makes a war against Iran extremely unlikely if Iran is not persuing nuclear weapons. The dynamics that led to the Iraq war that were at play here are gone. Under the Bush admistration, war against Iran was a likely outcome regardless of whether or not Iran had a nuclear weapons program, because Iran insists on its right to enrich uranium.


These are such huge things that you would almost forget some "lesser results" that in their own right would be worthy of a Nobel Peace prize, such as:


4) Armenia and Turkey signed a peace deal after US brokered mediations.

 

[arildno]

Obama has done a lot. Perhaps it is because the Americans don't care about the relevant issues that they don't see this. E.g.:

1) An unprecendented move toward nuclear disarmement has been made. For many many years the US rejected such suggestions. This makes it possible to strengthen the NPT.

Exceedingly naive.

The Cold War powers were highly effective in preventing nuclear proliferation to other countries.

Our problem today is precisely uncontrolled nuclear proliferation to a variety of unstable regimes. There is no longer any USSR to have gradual, controlled de-armament policies with, but the danger of proliferation has increased, not decreased, and uni-lateral de-armament is not an effective strategy on this point.

4) Armenia and Turkey signed a peace deal after US brokered mediations.

Forced down the throat of the Armenians, rather, since Turkey wasn't required to make any concessions whatsoever in even recognizing the massacres on Armenians by the late Ottoman empire.


Just to highlight two of your points whose merits are highly debatable.

 

[Sorry!]

I honestly don't see it happening at any point in the future that any country with nuclear weapons will destroy them all. I just don't think it's plausible that a country will do that.

 

[arildno]

Perhaps the Turkish leadership didn't want to be on the evening news being accused of "trashing their own country", which simply admitting the truth nowadays seems to get you.

And why was the US government so insistent that the ARMENIANS should engage in yet another act of self-humiliation?

 

[OmCheeto]

And why was the US government so insistent that the ARMENIANS should engage in yet another act of self-humiliation?

What was the first act of self-humiliation? Or did the Armenians back then volunteer to be slaughtered?

That's ok if you don't know the answer. I'll ask my friend Vlad, he's from Armenia, and claims to know about such things.

 

[Count Iblis]

Exceedingly naive.

The Cold War powers were highly effective in preventing nuclear proliferation to other countries.

Our problem today is precisely uncontrolled nuclear proliferation to a variety of unstable regimes. There is no longer any USSR to have gradual, controlled de-armament policies with, but the danger of proliferation has increased, not decreased, and uni-lateral de-armament is not an effective strategy on this point.

Naive or not, the focus of the Nobel Peace Prize is to reward behavior consistent with living in a peaceful World. If the concept of a peaceful world in which the peace is not coerced by one or more superpowers is "naive", then that's a criticism of the concept of peace as the Nobel Comittee understands it.

 

[Hurkyl]

Sigh. At least it was nice to see unity for a day or two.

 

[Count Iblis]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jOSU7Ew6j4vlEn0d_L0eXG0A1w1gD9B9M09G0"

(AP) – 38 minutes ago

HAVANA — Many of the 75 activists jailed in a 2003 Cuban government crackdown on political dissent are congratulating Barack Obama for winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

In a letter released Monday to international journalists, 29 of those imprisoned six years ago said Obama "has become a global symbol, especially for us who, under difficult conditions, are defending Cubans' right to democracy."

In another letter, 21 of their wives, mothers and other female relatives also cheered Obama.

Fifty-four dissidents remain imprisoned on allegations they conspired with the U.S. to topple Cuba's government. Those freed were granted medical parole or forced into exile in Spain. One was released after completing a six-year sentence.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

 

[WhoWee]

I wish to congratulate the Nobel committee for their inspired and insightful decision to award President Obama this prestigious award. Never before have we seen a political leader who can inspire the people of all nations as Obama has. But more than that, Obama changed the wayward course of the most powerful nation on Earth virtually overnight. His first act was to reach out to all people of the world. He made it clear that we offer and open hand rather than a clenched fist. He changed the tone of the global conversation in order to create an atmosphere in which peace is possible.

Obama has ended the use of torture and closed the CIA’s secret prisons. He is also working hard to close Guantanamo. Through these acts he demonstrates that America is not hopelessly lost; that once again we will strive to meet the standards of decency that we expect not only of ourselves, but of all nations. He spoke honestly and earnestly to the people of the Middle East and admitted that we have made mistakes. He dropped the self-righteous pretense that the US in infallible. He showed the world that we are willing to change. He also made it clear that all nations bear the burden of history; that we must all admit to our faults and move on.

The significance of these acts alone cannot be overstated. Under Bush we showed the world that we are a nation of fear and reactionaries. We showed that we are to be feared, not trusted. We showed that even invading a country on false pretense carries no liability. We showed that we are reckless, irresponsible, and dangerous.

The Nobel committee clearly recognizes that in order for peace to be possible on any number of fronts, the US must be engaged as a trusted member of the global community. They also recognize that as a once-in-a-lifetime leader, Obama’s efforts will be well-served though this special recognition. While Obama hasn’t yet parted the Red Sea or walked on water, no reasonable person expected that he could change the world overnight. However, through his dedication and brilliance, during his two terms of office he will almost certainly change the world in ways that are profound and lasting.

A number of people have been mentioned who may be worthy of this award. But along with deeds and desires of individuals is the global significance of their efforts. Perhaps someone working to bring peace to some little corner of the world is deserving of a Nobel Prize, but the significance of their efforts is limited in the global sense. Clearly this matters or an award would be given every year. Obama has the potential to affect all people of all nations. He has the ability to change the world and he is working hard to do so. For this reason he cannot be compared to all who work for change and peace. He is the leader of the most powerful nation on earth. For this reason, Obama matters more than the others mentioned.

So in recognition for what Obama has done and for what he is working to do, I applaud this award whole heartedly. I also applaud the Nobel committee for recognizing greatness. But I think the Nobel committee did miss the target. I think the award should have gone to the 69,456,897 Americans who elected Obama; thus changing the destiny of not only this nation, but also the destiny of the world. Congratulations to us.

Ivan, please support the major components of your glowing speech.

 

[Supercritical]

I don't think you'll get a good response, WhoWee.

I've been following this forum for some time, and I can't recall seeing anyone be persuaded through logic to change his/her point of view. I think that many of us (myself included) take great pride in our positions. When we walk ourselves through our arguments in the final phases before we hit the "submit reply" button, the only person we're up against is ourselves. And a lot of us have an inflated sense of self-worth, to the extent that if we can beat that guy in the mirror and convince him of our point of view, we will have defeated the defending-champion and taken his crown.

And once that's done, who can stand against you?

 

[tim85ruhruniv]

Someone please nominate me for the Physics Nobel Next year... I have lots of vision, I 'hope' to unify all the theories consistently. I am highly motivated tooo , all i think about is physics everyday... if possible my friend (he works in McDonalds) tooo, he is a visionary, highly motivated by me to start studying physics lol... he is a hope to all his collegues ´...

nevertheless am planning to nominate my Cat trixie for the peace prize... shez totally against violence, even against nuclear weapons, shez against war tooo lol...

 

[arildno]

nevertheless am planning to nominate my Cat trixie for the peace prize... shez totally against violence, even against nuclear weapons, shez against war tooo lol...

What if the mice complain?