Definition of Limit for vector fields

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of limits for vector fields, particularly in the context of mathematical analysis and topology. Participants explore the equivalence of different formulations of limits, including the transition from neighborhood definitions to norm convergence, and the implications of these definitions in various mathematical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference Apostol's definition of limits for vector fields, questioning the equivalence of the limit definitions involving neighborhoods and norm convergence.
  • There is a discussion about the clarity of transitioning from the limit of a function to the limit of its difference from a point, with some arguing that this transition is not straightforward.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of the condition that the norm of the difference must be less than epsilon for all x within a delta neighborhood, suggesting that this is crucial for certain functions.
  • Another participant elaborates on the neighborhood definition of limits, stating that in topological vector spaces, the limit can be expressed in terms of epsilon-balls, which leads to norm convergence.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the concepts discussed, indicating a need for further clarification and study.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the equivalence of the different definitions of limits for vector fields. There are multiple viewpoints regarding the clarity and implications of these definitions, and some participants express uncertainty or confusion about the concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in understanding are noted, particularly regarding the transition between different formulations of limits and the assumptions involved in topological vector spaces. Some participants indicate that they may need further study to grasp the concepts fully.

Kashmir
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Apostol defines limit for vector fields as
> ##\quad \lim _{x \rightarrow a} f(x)=b \quad(\rm or\; f(x) \rightarrow b## as ##x \rightarrow a)##
means that :
##\lim _{\|x-a\| \rightarrow 0}\|f(x)-b\|=0##

Can't we say it's equivalent to ##\lim _{x \rightarrow a}(f(x)-b)=0##
 
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Scalars? vectors ?

##\ ##
 
Kashmir said:
Apostol defines limit for vector fields as
> ##\quad \lim _{x \rightarrow a} f(x)=b \quad(\rm or\; f(x) \rightarrow b## as ##x \rightarrow a)##
means that :
##\lim _{\|x-a\| \rightarrow 0}\|f(x)-b\|=0##

Can't we say it's equivalent to ##\lim _{x \rightarrow a}(f(x)-b)=0##
You can, after you accept the definition. I think going from f(x)= b to f(x)-b is 0, is obvious, but going from lim(x->a) to lim (||x-a|| ->0) is not.
There are certainly functions where it's important that || f(x) - b || < epsilon for all the x with || x-a || < delta.
 
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Kashmir said:
Apostol defines limit for vector fields as
> ##\quad \lim _{x \rightarrow a} f(x)=b \quad(\rm or\; f(x) \rightarrow b## as ##x \rightarrow a)##
means that :
##\lim _{\|x-a\| \rightarrow 0}\|f(x)-b\|=0##

Can't we say it's equivalent to ##\lim _{x \rightarrow a}(f(x)-b)=0##
Say ##\lim_{x \to a} f(x)=b## means, that for each neighborhood ##V_b## of ##b## there is a neighborhood ##U_a## of ##a## such that ##f(x)\in V_b## whenever ##x\in U_a\,.## If we further assume that we are dealing with topological vector spaces, then this is equivalent to ##\lim_{x-a \to 0}(f(x)-b)=0\,.## It also implies that every neighborhood contains an ##\varepsilon -##ball. Thus we can replace all neighborhoods with ##\varepsilon -##balls, i.e. the norm convergence. And metric spaces are topological vector spaces.
 
BvU said:
Scalars? vectors ?

##\ ##
I couldn't understand. Could you please explain what you mean?
 
willem2 said:
You can, after you accept the definition. I think going from f(x)= b to f(x)-b is 0, is obvious, but going from lim(x->a) to lim (||x-a|| ->0) is not.
There are certainly functions where it's important that || f(x) - b || < epsilon for all the x with || x-a || < delta.
"lim(x->a) to lim (||x-a|| ->0)" because if x->a the magnitude of difference vector ||x-a|| will tend to zero.
Is that ok?
 
fresh_42 said:
Say ##\lim_{x \to a} f(x)=b## means, that for each neighborhood ##V_b## of ##b## there is a neighborhood ##U_a## of ##a## such that ##f(x)\in V_b## whenever ##x\in U_a\,.## If we further assume that we are dealing with topological vector spaces, then this is equivalent to ##\lim_{x-a \to 0}(f(x)-b)=0\,.## It also implies that every neighborhood contains an ##\varepsilon -##ball. Thus we can replace all neighborhoods with ##\varepsilon -##balls, i.e. the norm convergence. And metric spaces are topological vector spaces.
Thank you for your reply. I can't understand it right now. It's beyond my learning. Hopefully I'll come back to it after studying some more. :)
 

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