Definitive measurement that determines state of matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on methods for empirically determining the state of matter of a substance, particularly in cases where definitions may be ambiguous or contested. Participants explore the challenges of classifying substances as solids or liquids, especially in the context of newly discovered materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the empirical methods available for determining a substance's state of matter, suggesting that definitions in textbooks may lack testability.
  • Another participant humorously proposes practical criteria: if a substance can be poured, it is a liquid; if it can support a structure, it is a solid.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that the classification of states of matter is often a rough characterization, noting that phases can become indistinct at critical points.
  • Reference to non-Newtonian fluids is made, indicating that some substances do not fit neatly into traditional categories of solid or liquid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying opinions on the clarity of definitions regarding states of matter, indicating that multiple competing views remain on how to empirically determine these states.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in existing definitions and the potential for ambiguity in classifying states of matter, particularly for new or unusual substances.

curiousoldguy
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What is an (the?) empirically demonstrable method used for determining a substance's state of matter?

If a new substance was discovered and scientist A said it's solid and scientist B said it's a liquid, how would it be demonstrably proven to be one or the other? The books I have define states of matter in scientifically unsatisfying terms like "if there is very little room between molecules but they can move it's a liquid": it doesn't seem testable: my definition of "very little room" might be different than yours. For example, is there a magic heat capacity that for any substance, if it's above 25 J/C it's by definition a solid? I can look-up tables of characteristics for known substances, but what about one that falls from outer space we know nothing about?

Thanks for any insight. :)
 
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A substance's state of matter is just a rough characterization. Real physical systems are not always so clearly distinct to where they can be classified. For example, at the critical point and beyond the liquid and gas phases are not distinct.
 
See/Google "non-Newtonian fluids."
 
Thanks. I got the feeling they were general terms. :)
 

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