Job Skills Degrees with actual guaranteed jobs after graduation?

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After three years of job searching with a degree in Electrical Engineering and over 1,000 applications, the individual has received no job offers and minimal interview invitations, despite a high GPA and personal projects. The lack of success is attributed to a perceived lack of connections and experience, compounded by ineffective career center support. The discussion emphasizes the importance of conducting an honest self-assessment to identify specific reasons for unemployment, rather than accepting a general label of being "unemployable." Suggestions include seeking targeted job opportunities, networking, and possibly considering technician roles to gain experience. Ultimately, understanding the underlying reasons for the job search difficulties is crucial for developing a new strategy for employment.
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About 3 years ago I achieved my degree in Electrical Engineering and I have applied for over 1000+ jobs at this point. I have had exactly 0 offers and constant rejections despite tailoring my resume for each job. I barely get invited to any interviews. The co-op/internships/traineeships at my school were also very competitive and so I wasn't able to secure anything. My career center has been largely useless too due to the contradictory advice being given for job searching and resume corrections. Despite all this I graduated with high gpa with several personal projects ( and several more too during these past 3 years). I also have no real connections and no real experience.

Given that I'm essentially unemployable what other ways can I make money with this degree in EE? Given that I'm unemployable and my degree has essentially expired what can I do to gain real skills in EE without a job, and to increase my chances for future employment (if any, as there appears to be none (as there are no "opportunities" for EE grads with no real experience)? Because at this point this education and degree is a total waste and a piece of toilet paper.

Or if this is not possible what other degrees are there that actually do guarantee jobs after graduation? What degrees are actually worth the investment and actually offer something?
 
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I am sorry to hear that you are struggling so much. A job search can be frustrating.

pqp said:
what other degrees are there that actually do guarantee jobs after graduation?
There is no such thing. The closest thing here in the US would be the military, but even that is not guaranteed.

pqp said:
About 3 years ago I achieved my degree in Electrical Engineering and I have applied for over 1000+ jobs at this point. I have had exactly 0 offers … I graduated with high gpa with several personal projects
This doesn’t make sense. There must be some specific reason that this is happening. Not just a generic “I am unemployable” but a specific “I am unemployable because …”

That is the most important thing for you to determine, before you make a new plan.
 
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So what to do? Continue trying to find a job in EE and get new credentials or start all over again with a new degree? It's very hard to determine - "I am unemployable because..." - it can either be very trivial or something more. HR never gives any feedback either so how is one supposed to know the reason?
 
pqp said:
It's very hard to determine - "I am unemployable because..."
Nevertheless, that is what you must do now. That is your primary task. If you just go off searching for a new path without understanding this, then chances are you will just arrive at the same result.

Don’t expect HR departments to do this. Their goal is help their company, not the applicants.

You start with a fully honest self-assessment, one where you look for reasons why you are not getting interviews and offers, not excuses. The difference between a reason and an excuse is mostly that excuses give you permission to fail while reasons give you a challenge to overcome. Reasons can be both internal (e.g. soft skills) or external (e.g. local economy). Look for both, because probably both are important.

You also need to find a person that you know personally, who can give you professional advice. Preferably not a peer, but someone with more experience with whom you already have a relationship. You want someone who knows you and can give you honest critical feedback. Who you know has your best interest at heart, and whose opinion you respect enough to possibly do some difficult things.

pqp said:
it can either be very trivial or something more.
It has been 3 years and >1000 applications; it is not something trivial. There is at least one important reason, and you need to find it so that you can finally address it.
 
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But I don't know anyone personally though. It seems like it's too late. Edit: I do try to always improve social skills though when given the chance.
 
pqp said:
But I don't know anyone personally though. It seems like it's too late.
Maybe spend more than 5 minutes thinking about it before making excuses.
 
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I've been thinking about it before I even wrote this thread, years even. I'd too like to think it's an excuse but I'm not sure. My goal is to have a career in EE in power electronics so it's in my best interest to succeed.
 
I don’t believe that you don’t know anyone that you can approach. No parents or uncles or aunts or grandparents. No former teachers. No people from church or a social club. No friends or parents of friends. Not one single person that would fit.

It is an excuse and not a very believable one, frankly. Particularly not as quickly as you responded. That wasn’t a thoughtful and realistic consideration of your actual situation and the actual individuals you know. That was an immediate reflexive response.

Try again, for real. But there is no need to tell us who. Just work on that and your honest self assessment.

pqp said:
I've been thinking about it before I even wrote this thread, years even.
I am sure that your situation has been occupying a lot of your thought for the past years. However, until you can answer the question “I am unemployable because …” you have not thought about it enough. There is a reason (or multiple reasons). You need to find it.
 
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pqp said:
About 3 years ago I achieved my degree in Electrical Engineering and I have applied for over 1000+ jobs at this point. I have had exactly 0 offers and constant rejections despite tailoring my resume for each job. I barely get invited to any interviews. The co-op/internships/traineeships at my school were also very competitive and so I wasn't able to secure anything. My career center has been largely useless too due to the contradictory advice being given for job searching and resume corrections. Despite all this I graduated with high gpa with several personal projects ( and several more too during these past 3 years). I also have no real connections and no real experience.
Using my PF Admin powers I can see that you are not in the US. What is the EE job market like in your country? Do you know how many of your fellow EE graduates have been able to find work in the EE industry in your country?

The high GPA and personal projects are part of what I look for in hiring new graduates, so it sounds like you have been doing the right things.

pqp said:
Given that I'm essentially unemployable what other ways can I make money with this degree in EE? Given that I'm unemployable and my degree has essentially expired what can I do to gain real skills in EE without a job, and to increase my chances for future employment
I don't think you are unemployable, but if you did well in university you could consider at least doing some tutoring to generate some income. You might also consider applying for some EE technician jobs to see if you can get hired for them. If you have worked on personal projects, you should be reasonably skilled as wiring and soldering and reading schematics, etc. You are overqualified for a technician job, but it might be a place to start and prove yourself, and then work your way up through the company into a more traditional design EE role.
 
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  • #10
Hmm - there's something off here and it's difficult for us to really offer a lot of constructive advice. Sorry that it's been such a tough slog for you.

As has been said, there are no guarantees when it comes to employment following a degree. Professional degrees such as engineering, law, or medicine tend to generally make people employable for the specific professions they are oriented towards, but there are often additional hoops to jump. I'm very surprised that someone with an electrical engineering degree, would have such a hard time finding employment, but there are factors that can come into play... failed board exams, personal history, social skills, neurodiversity factors that may present extremely difficult hurdles that the degree cannot overcome. There are also geographic factors, geopolitical factors, and of course economic supply/demand factors.

On the surface of it, with a batting average of 0 for 1000, I might suggest changing up your tactics. It sounds like you're using a shotgun approach to the problem... sending off as many applications as possible with minimal engagement. What about more of a targeted approach? Invest time in learning the details about a position that you're really interested in... look for job shadow opportunities, see if there is anyone you can talk to people in the company (even if they have no influence on hiring), learn about the specifics of the position you're interested in by talking to people who do similar work in other companies, take relevant "continuing education" courses and make sure you have all qualifications that you need, do volunteer work to build up a base of experience, find out if the company/office ever has open house days and attend, go to conferences relevant to the work the company does and find out what kind of people typically get hired into the position you're interested in. The overall point is that rather than being reactionary to a job that gets posted on some random website, do everything you can to be the person who they create the position for in the first place.
 
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  • #11
Dale said:
Nevertheless, that is what you must do now. That is your primary task. If you just go off searching for a new path without understanding this, then chances are you will just arrive at the same result.

Don’t expect HR departments to do this. Their goal is help their company, not the applicants.

You start with a fully honest self-assessment, one where you look for reasons why you are not getting interviews and offers, not excuses. The difference between a reason and an excuse is mostly that excuses give you permission to fail while reasons give you a challenge to overcome. Reasons can be both internal (e.g. soft skills) or external (e.g. local economy). Look for both, because probably both are important.

You also need to find a person that you know personally, who can give you professional advice. Preferably not a peer, but someone with more experience with whom you already have a relationship. You want someone who knows you and can give you honest critical feedback. Who you know has your best interest at heart, and whose opinion you respect enough to possibly do some difficult things.

It has been 3 years and >1000 applications; it is not something trivial. There is at least one important reason, and you need to find it so that you can finally address it.
Well all jobs in my area require at least 3 - 5 real years of experience for entry level and all job requirements are like this. Even internships required experience. So that's what I call trivial. As for interviews (when I do get invited which is very rarely) I always read the job descriptions, the company information, etc. So I am always prepared.
 
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  • #12
Dale said:
I don’t believe that you don’t know anyone that you can approach. No parents or uncles or aunts or grandparents. No former teachers. No people from church or a social club. No friends or parents of friends. Not one single person that would fit.

It is an excuse and not a very believable one, frankly. Particularly not as quickly as you responded. That wasn’t a thoughtful and realistic consideration of your actual situation and the actual individuals you know. That was an immediate reflexive response.

Try again, for real. But there is no need to tell us who. Just work on that and your honest self assessment.

I am sure that your situation has been occupying a lot of your thought for the past years. However, until you can answer the question “I am unemployable because …” you have not thought about it enough. There is a reason (or multiple reasons). You need to find it.
Believe it or not I have no one to give me any real advice. Neither of the people I know do anything engineering related so they can't offer any help. I don't know any professors or people from my graduating class personally and don't have any real connections with them. I also didn't have any real friends.

There is a reason (or multiple reasons). You need to find it.

I suspect it's always my lack of experience. For interviews I always prepare ahead of time, leave time to ask questions, etc.
 
  • #13
Dale said:
I don’t believe that you don’t know anyone that you can approach. No parents or uncles or aunts or grandparents. No former teachers. No people from church or a social club. No friends or parents of friends. Not one single person that would fit.

It is an excuse and not a very believable one, frankly. Particularly not as quickly as you responded. That wasn’t a thoughtful and realistic consideration of your actual situation and the actual individuals you know. That was an immediate reflexive response.

Try again, for real. But there is no need to tell us who. Just work on that and your honest self assessment.

I am sure that your situation has been occupying a lot of your thought for the past years. However, until you can answer the question “I am unemployable because …” you have not thought about it enough. There is a reason (or multiple reasons). You need to find it.
You are making too many assumptions about me. I already made that self assessment way before this post. It's as honest as it can possibly be.
 
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  • #14
pqp said:
Well all jobs in my area require at least 3 - 5 real years of experience for entry level and all job requirements are like this. Even internships required experience. So that's what I call trivial. As for interviews (when I do get invited which is very rarely) I always read the job descriptions, the company information, etc. So I am always prepared.
Assuming this is true (3- 5 yrs experience for an entry-level job is a non sequitur to me), how are any grads in your area acquiring the requisite experience, either for internships or entry-level jobs? Does this mean that year-after-year, entire classes of EE grads are unemployed/unemployable? Does this apply only to EE? Sounds like a system that would have already collapsed on itself.

By the way, if you are not in the US, why does your profile say US? Proper guidance requires accurate input.
 
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  • #15
pqp said:
Well all jobs in my area require at least 3 - 5 real years of experience for entry level and all job requirements are like this. Even internships required experience.
Good. Your years of school count as experience here, but you may want to look for jobs outside your area. Often good professional opportunities require you to move. Many companies subtly prioritize people who are willing to relocate.

pqp said:
Neither of the people I know do anything engineering related so they can't offer any help.
That doesn’t matter. You are not looking for engineering guidance. You are looking for job search guidance. You want them to help you learn what is the reason for your job search problems. They do not need engineering knowledge for that. They mostly just need to know you. They are not giving you feedback on engineering, they are giving you feedback on you.

pqp said:
I already made that self assessment way before this post. It's as honest as it can possibly be.
I don’t think so. If you had then you would have been able to answer the question. “I am unemployable because I have no experience”.

This is another reason getting support from an experienced individual who knows you personally is so important. You appear to have some difficulty assessing yourself. You need some external perspective that you trust.

Lack of experience is probably not the only reason, but it is a reason that you can start working on immediately:

1) you have 4 (?) years of experience in EE, unless they explicitly specify “post graduate” experience. So don’t tell people you have no experience.

2) look for internship/volunteer opportunities to obtain post-graduate experience.

3) did your personal projects involve something you could market or sell? Set up a business and market them. Then the time you spent on the personal projects is experience.

You can get experience.

But that is probably not the only reason. So don’t skip the personal feedback thing.

pqp said:
I don't know any professors or people from my graduating class personally and don't have any real connections with them. I also didn't have any real friends.
Why not? That seems very problematic. Even if everything was online you should know several of your professors personally and many students. This may be a symptom of another reason. Are you diagnosed with any social or neurological disorders? Have you been tested for them? If you have such a condition you should not ignore it.

pqp said:
You are making too many assumptions about me.
Of course I am making tons of assumptions about you. We only know each other through a single exchange on an online forum. That is precisely why I have repeatedly recommended getting someone who knows you personally involved. That is why such advice is not optional and why you need to stop making excuses on that.
 
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  • #16
pqp said:
Believe it or not I have no one to give me any real advice.
Go to a professional coach. They can help with your employability and, more importantly, they can see into your blind spots - the things that affect your presentation that you are unaware of.

For all we know, you are a loud-talker, or you have halitosis or a verbal crutch, or maybe you're too demure and self-defeating in an interview - who knows? These are just some things that others may be aware of that you are not. You need an objective critic.
 
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  • #17
You say you barely get invited for an interview, so how many have you had? With no experience, why do you attempt to apply for positions that require experience? How well did you research your EE specialty? Did you expect to easily find a job when you graduated? By the way, what is your specialty?

Keep in mind that AI is often used to screen applications so maybe you are not getting past its review.
 
  • #18
CrysPhys said:
Assuming this is true (3- 5 yrs experience for an entry-level job is a non sequitur to me)...
If they have such a contradiction in the requirements that just makes it a wishlist, not a real requirement.
 
  • #19
To the others who have posted:

I see quite a few people who are skeptical of the claims made by the OP (i.e. that they have earned a degree in EE 3 years ago, and have been unable to find a job).

Keep in mind that 3 years ago (and earlier, when the OP was a student) the US and the rest of the world were in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic, which no doubt affected the OP's chances of getting internships, as well as affected their ability to build meaningful connections with professors and fellow students (factors that would have helped with the networking that is key to gaining meaningful employment).

To the OP:

1. What have you been doing during the 3 years since you have completed your degree? Have you had ANY employment whatsoever? How are you supporting yourself? I ask this because oftentimes, employers have a bias against jobseekers with large gaps in employment records (I suspect that machine-learning filters that HR departments use tend to filter out resumes with such large gaps automatically, although I do not specifically have evidence to back this up).

2. Related to this, what types of jobs are you interested in working in? You mention power electronics -- a quick Google search with the entry "power electronics jobs in the USA) came back with 49 job postings in the entire country at the current moment, although it is possible that somehow I may be missing job entries. Are you open to working in another EE field?

3. Have you tried to contact those in management for an informational interview/chat to ask more about power electronics engineer work? These informational interviews are not a job interview per se, but an opportunity to ask questions and network with those who may be in a position to hire people in the future.
 
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  • #20
No one with an EE degree is truly unemployable.

It is frustrating and hard.

My children are Gen Z and fairly recent college graduates from very good schools with STEM majors, and each of their job searches has involved many hundreds of job applications for many months to produce a single job. My daughter worked at a couple of jobs totally unrelated to her major for shitty pay with no benefits, then got a job as a project manager for a language translation company (which also used only her "soft skills", i.e. being a literate, functional, well-organized college graduate who could communicate well, and not anything she'd learned in her major), and from there to two subsequent jobs as a project manager supervising computer programming projects. My son thought he was set working for a tech/finance startup right out of college, only to have to look for greener grass ASAP when the CFO embezzled many millions of dollars from the company killing any prospects of bonuses and putting the company's survival, and its ability to make payroll in the near future, in question.

Many people who were science and engineering majors in college end up in positions only roughly adjacent to their major.

One of my cousins, who was a chemical engineer, spent most of her career selling specialized chemistry equipment to actual practicing chemists, pharmacists, and chemical engineers. My daughter who was an environmental science major ended up being a project manager supervising computer programers. My sister-in-law, who was a physics major, got her first job at a tech support call center for a software company (she later became a vet tech because she liked the work better). My other sister-in-law earned a graduate degree, only to end up running a popular book store for many years for a friend, which was totally unrelated to what she had studied and only returned to the career her graduate degree was in twenty years later. My brother was a Russian major in college, but ended up programing computers instead. My father, who had a PhD in civil engineering, after a first job as a civil engineering professor, ended up leading an environmental science department for the rest of his career. My mother-in-law, who was an M.D. with a physical therapy medicine specialty, ended up spending much of the later part of her career on the side hustle of practicing acupuncture. One of my good friends from high school, with a solid STEM background (I don't know exactly what he majored in) worked first as a quant analyst on Wall Street and then as a professor of Japanese (a language he learned for the first time sometime after high school in which he had studied Russian). A dear friend of mine from college, who has been a chemistry professor for decades, is in the process of starting a career consulting business, mostly for recent college graduates, after having seen former students struggle to find jobs.

The point is that lots of very talented and employable people with specialized STEM educations don't end up with a career in exactly what they trained to do in college. Opening your mind to positions that weren't exactly what you had in mind is fine.

It also wouldn't hurt to have someone who does career counseling in the STEM area look at your resume and review your job searching history with you to see if there if anything that you need to fine tune.

For example, many employers now use AI to screen cover letters and resumes for buzz words, and someone more adept in that than I am may be able to help you optimize your applications with that in mind. Some practice rehearing for interviews also wouldn't hurt.

If you really think that additional credentials would help, and you are simply spinning your wheels, consider certificate programs focused on particular skills or specialities, rather than a whole new degree. My daughter, her fiancé, and a friend of mine who was my best man at my wedding, for example, all did that and were able to use to the credential to their advantage in their careers. Look into the kinds of credential programs that are out there in areas that interest you.

You could go for a graduate degree, but in engineering, a graduate degree is not nearly as much of a critical credential as in the sciences. You should really only pursue that if you have an academic bent that is specific to electrical engineering. I would not recommend going back to earn a second undergraduate degree in another field. That adds little value and pegs you as "weird" or "not a good fit" in the job market.

An alternative to a graduate degree in engineering, if you were so inclined, would be to pursue to law degree with an eye towards becoming a patent lawyer (or a more focused program to be a patent agent who is not a lawyer).

Another thing to consider is the geographic scope of your search. While someone with an electrical engineering degree is always employable somewhere, if you are in an economically stagnant place and are restricting your search to that region (e.g. due to the costs of living until you get a job, or family ties) there may indeed be very few jobs to be had. Studies of the after graduation earnings of people who attended various higher educational programs find that the return on investment from higher education is huge in places with booming economies, but only slightly better than nothing in places with depressed economies.

If you're in Liverpool or Cleveland or some rural area, consider looking for positions in Dublin, or London, or Vancouver, or San Jose, or San Diego, or Austin, or Miami, or Sydney, or UAE.

If all else fails, you could also consider starting a business that uses your skills. That is what I did when I was laid off from my first job as a lawyer two weeks after passing the bar when my employer lost a major client, and while it isn't an easy road in any profession, it isn't impossible either.

I have two uncles who were engineers (I don't know what their specialties were) who each started their own engineering firms shortly after finishing college. One did well for many years, went bankrupt when a major client went bankrupt and couldn't pay them in anything other than a warehouse full of wild rice (which everyone in the extended family received vast amounts of as gifts in that time period) and then started a new career all over again after that (he and his wife founded a private college in Tanzania as a mission for their church). The other managed to keep his business going well enough until he retired.

Still, don't be too focused on the long term, even if that means accepting compromises doing something that isn't your dream job now. It is better to work at something, even you are overqualified to do it, than to be completely unemployed for too long. It may be humbling to have an EE degree and end up writing webpages, or providing IT support for a medium sized office, or working in a car repair shop, or as a lineman for a utility company, or as a tutor, or as an adjunct instructor for a basic class at a local college or trade school, or an electrician for a construction company, or working retail at a computer or appliance store, or working in an appliance repair shop, or doing lighting work for a local theater company or indie movie maker, or selling little gadgets on Etsy or E-Bay. But, your current job doesn't have to be your destiny.

One of my friends from high school, who was my best man at my wedding, enlisted as a part-time soldier for the national guard to help make ends meet before he was able to shore up his business selling software on a commission basis for Microsoft, and consulting for the businesses he sold the software to (which wasn't the programming job he'd dreamed of, but worked out well in the end as he distinguished himself doing that and became very profitable with a business that had a great reputation for technical competence that many of his rivals in the software sales business lacked). I know self-employed people who have done freelance writing and tutoring high school kids in math, far afield from their primary job, to make ends meet when times were tough.

And, just because you have a job doesn't mean that you have to, or should, stop looking for a new and better job. Both of my children, and all of their peers from high school and college, are constantly looking for new jobs and keeping an eye on what the job market wants, even when they are employed full-time. I know almost no one in Generation X or younger who has worked at the same job at the same place for their entire life (the only exceptions is a cousin who was a special education teacher who had tenure at a school district in a suburb in Ohio and retired as soon as she had the thirty-years on the job that she needed to do so).

Even if you can't find paid work in the career you'd really like to do, consider volunteering in a way that uses your skills (which is also a great way to network).

For example, one friend of mine that I had lunch with last month after not having talked to for a while, had gone from being one of the most committed volunteers for a non-profit in my friend's professional specialty, to becoming its director, while doing part-time consulting on the side to supplement the limited amount that the non-profit could afford to pay. This keeps you sharp and helps keep your spirits up as well.

Finally, network, network, network. It doesn't come naturally to introverts, which most EEs are, and it is painful at first. It's especially painful to do this when you feel vulnerable because you don't have a solid career at the moment. But, that's when it's most important to do so. So, get yourself out there.

Go to high school and college alumni functions. Never say no to an invitation to a wedding, a funeral, a birthday party, or any other kind of party, or a request to help a friend of a friend move to a new apartment. Reach out to friends and acquaintances from high school and college, and cousins, that you've lost touch with. Actively participate in more than one kind of social media and have an up to date LinkedIn page. Check in on your old professors and former part-time job or internship supervisors and co-workers. Talk to your neighbors. If you're at all religious, go to church services and join a church related group or volunteer. Join clubs. Work on a political campaign. Go anywhere that you can interact with other people.

In the world of jobs and businesses, the best strategy is to have many acquaintances with whom you have only thin connections, rather than to have one or two close solid friendships.
 
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  • #21
ohwilleke, I have too little patience to read that big long post, but I did read maybe about 10 to 15 percent of it and gave it a "informative" reaction.
 
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  • #22
berkeman said:
Using my PF Admin powers I can see that you are not in the US. What is the EE job market like in your country? Do you know how many of your fellow EE graduates have been able to find work in the EE industry in your country?
Canada. The EE market is very poor. Some do some don't. The one's that do almost certainly have connections.
 
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  • #23
Choppy said:
On the surface of it, with a batting average of 0 for 1000, I might suggest changing up your tactics. It sounds like you're using a shotgun approach to the problem... sending off as many applications as possible with minimal engagement. What about more of a targeted approach? Invest time in learning the details about a position that you're really interested in... look for job shadow opportunities, see if there is anyone you can talk to people in the company (even if they have no influence on hiring), learn about the specifics of the position you're interested in by talking to people who do similar work in other companies, take relevant "continuing education" courses and make sure you have all qualifications that you need, do volunteer work to build up a base of experience, find out if the company/office ever has open house days and attend, go to conferences relevant to the work the company does and find out what kind of people typically get hired into the position you're interested in. The overall point is that rather than being reactionary to a job that gets posted on some random website, do everything you can to be the person who they create the position for in the first place.
How does that work exactly? Most companies only have their career page with details explaining the job description and what the company does as a whole, their goals, etc. The only people that I can contact from those sites are either recruiters or the hiring management, neither of which show any interest in responding or replying. So which people exactly should I talk to? I even apply to jobs in person and they simply tell me to apply online and are not even interested in hearing what I have to say or even explain what they do.

Invest time in learning the details about a position that you're really interested in... look for job shadow opportunities

Okay so far so good. Where do you find these job shadow opportunities?

see if there is anyone you can talk to people in the company (even if they have no influence on hiring), learn about the specifics of the position you're interested in by talking to people who do similar work in other companies
They don't at best they give some general information that doesn't help at all and at best tell you to apply online.

do volunteer work to build up a base of experience, find out if the company/office ever has open house days and attend, go to conferences relevant to the work the company does and find out what kind of people typically get hired into the position you're interested in.

This is all very up in the air and theoretical. Which conferences and where do I find them? Who organizes those conferences? Where is their contact information? Where do I go? Which site are they on? All this information is hidden from me, so I don't know exactly how that will help.
 
  • #24
pqp said:
This is all very up in the air and theoretical. Which conferences and where do I find them? Who organizes those conferences? Where is their contact information? Where do I go? Which site are they on? All this information is hidden from me, so I don't know exactly how that will help.
Professional organization for like an official association of electrical engineers... Do some organizations like that exist and are in Canada?

adding: I just tried a search using a search engine and found some listings for EE organizations.
I am pasting a couple of them here:
https://library.georgiancollege.ca/c.php?g=3906&p=1785096
https://ieeecanada.org/about/
 
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  • #25
Dale said:
Many companies subtly prioritize people who are willing to relocate.

That doesn’t matter. You are not looking for engineering guidance. You are looking for job search guidance. You want them to help you learn what is the reason for your job search problems. They do not need engineering knowledge for that. They mostly just need to know you. They are not giving you feedback on engineering, they are giving you feedback on you.

I don’t think so. If you had then you would have been able to answer the question. “I am unemployable because I have no experience”.

This is another reason getting support from an experienced individual who knows you personally is so important. You appear to have some difficulty assessing yourself. You need some external perspective that you trust.

Lack of experience is probably not the only reason, but it is a reason that you can start working on immediately:

1) you have 4 (?) years of experience in EE, unless they explicitly specify “post graduate” experience. So don’t tell people you have no experience.

2) look for internship/volunteer opportunities to obtain post-graduate experience.

3) did your personal projects involve something you could market or sell? Set up a business and market them. Then the time you spent on the personal projects is experience.

You can get experience.

But that is probably not the only reason. So don’t skip the personal feedback thing.

Why not? That seems very problematic. Even if everything was online you should know several of your professors personally and many students. This may be a symptom of another reason. Are you diagnosed with any social or neurological disorders? Have you been tested for them? If you have such a condition you should not ignore it.

Of course I am making tons of assumptions about you. We only know each other through a single exchange on an online forum. That is precisely why I have repeatedly recommended getting someone who knows you personally involved. That is why such advice is not optional and why you need to stop making excuses on that.
1. I always mention I am open to relocation.

That doesn’t matter. You are not looking for engineering guidance. You are looking for job search guidance. You want them to help you learn what is the reason for your job search problems. They do not need engineering knowledge for that. They mostly just need to know you. They are not giving you feedback on engineering, they are giving you feedback on you.
2. Well they don't have any real advice they just experimented with everything until something stuck and that's what I'm doing now. They also work in entirely different industries so of course the job search will be different for each different industry.

they are giving you feedback on you.
2. I'm sorry but that doesn't really make sense.

I don’t think so. If you had then you would have been able to answer the question. “I am unemployable because I have no experience”.
3. Well I was honest with you when I said that I already made that self assessment way before this post. It's as honest as it can possibly be. I didn't mention I am unemployable because I have no experience because it is trivial reason as to why someone would be unemployed. That doesn't really make my point moot. Once again how is one supposed to know what one is doing wrong if they receive no help or advice from the industry they want to enter? It's very contradictory. I've tailored my resume several times; I've went to advisors, career mentors, etc and they all give me contradictory advice on what I should and should not do; I've tried applying in person, I've asked questions about company interests, culture, work, future prospects, etc only to receive some vague general answers; I've asked the people I know how to find work and they told me to simply experiment with everything (which is what I'm doing). So believe it or not I already made that self assessment way before this post and it's as honest as it can possibly be.

Lack of experience is probably not the only reason, but it is a reason that you can start working on immediately. But that is probably not the only reason. So don’t skip the personal feedback thing.

4. It is though. I am always well mannered, respectful and prepared for interviews. Maybe they don't like my physical characteristics? That's the only other thing I can think of.

Why not? That seems very problematic. Even if everything was online you should know several of your professors personally and many students. This may be a symptom of another reason. Are you diagnosed with any social or neurological disorders? Have you been tested for them? If you have such a condition you should not ignore it.
5. My entire degree was mostly online due to COVID so I didn't get any real opportunity to make meaningful connections with professors or students. For one my professors don't give a damn about the students or make connections with them unless they are very close or something and second the vast majority of students already have a social circle before even entering university. I am also an introvert by nature so it just played out that way.

This may be a symptom of another reason. Are you diagnosed with any social or neurological disorders? Have you been tested for them? If you have such a condition you should not ignore it.
5. I have no social or neurological disorder. I'm not defective if you must know.

That is precisely why I have repeatedly recommended getting someone who knows you personally involved. That is why such advice is not optional and why you need to stop making excuses on that.


6. Yes and their only advice for me was to experiment with everything if you consider that to be advice. They were lucky and so they advised me to proceed in a similar way. And I have never made any excuses since starting this thread. Why you keep insisting I'm making excuses is very weird and strange to me as I have never made any excuses.
 
  • #26
gleem said:
You say you barely get invited for an interview, so how many have you had? With no experience, why do you attempt to apply for positions that require experience? How well did you research your EE specialty? Did you expect to easily find a job when you graduated? By the way, what is your specialty?

Keep in mind that AI is often used to screen applications so maybe you are not getting past its review.
You say you barely get invited for an interview, so how many have you had? Maybe around 3 per year.

With no experience, why do you attempt to apply for positions that require experience? Because that's all there is. Even internships require experience.

How well did you research your EE specialty? Well I want to get into power electronics, before university I've read there were lots of opportunities in this field and that career growth is positive and growing.

Did you expect to easily find a job when you graduated? I did yes. It was logical at that time to think so.


Keep in mind that AI is often used to screen applications so maybe you are not getting past its review. - that's why I always use AI to format my applications.
 
  • #27
CrysPhys said:
Assuming this is true (3- 5 yrs experience for an entry-level job is a non sequitur to me), how are any grads in your area acquiring the requisite experience, either for internships or entry-level jobs? Does this mean that year-after-year, entire classes of EE grads are unemployed/unemployable? Does this apply only to EE? Sounds like a system that would have already collapsed on itself.

By the way, if you are not in the US, why does your profile say US? Proper guidance requires accurate input.
The one's that do almost certainly have connections the one's that don't just either start studying trades, working whatever job they can find, switch to a new career, pursue other degrees, etc. For me personally since graduation I've worked at a QA testing job and then retail. I didn't include that I worked retail in my applications because some companies would consider that inferior. I'm unsure of what to put to fill in the gaps of my resume because that's not good either.
 
  • #28
Also I also able to work in Europe as well. Does anyone here know how the job prospects are for Electrical Engineering in Europe?
 
  • #29
pqp said:
Canada. The EE market is very poor. Some do some don't. The one's that do almost certainly have connections.
@pqp, I have a few additional questions for you:

1. Where specifically in Canada do you live? I ask because there is a big difference in employment prospects for engineers depending on which province you live (e.g. Ontario vs Nova Scotia) and which city or town within a province (e.g. Toronto, ON vs Chatham, ON).

2. You mentioned in another post here that you were told that there were a lot of opportunities in power electronics. That is news to me, because Canada overall has relatively few positions in that area (the major demand areas in Canada within EE are photonics, control systems, automation, and communication to a limited degree). Are you open to other areas within EE?

3. What are your programming skills? Any projects on Github? Many EE graduates in Canada end up working in software.

4. The opportunities in demand right now in Canada are the skilled trades (e.g. electrician, plumber). Are you open to consider retraining to become, say, an electrician?

5. Are you a Canadian citizen?
 
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  • #30
pqp said:
Canada. The EE market is very poor.
That is not where you are posting from.

CrysPhys said:
Proper guidance requires accurate input.
 
  • #31
pqp said:
How does that work exactly? Most companies only have their career page with details explaining the job description and what the company does as a whole, their goals, etc. The only people that I can contact from those sites are either recruiters or the hiring management, neither of which show any interest in responding or replying. So which people exactly should I talk to? I even apply to jobs in person and they simply tell me to apply online and are not even interested in hearing what I have to say or even explain what they do.

Invest time in learning the details about a position that you're really interested in... look for job shadow opportunities
Okay so far so good. Where do you find these job shadow opportunities?

see if there is anyone you can talk to people in the company (even if they have no influence on hiring), learn about the specifics of the position you're interested in by talking to people who do similar work in other companies
They don't at best they give some general information that doesn't help at all and at best tell you to apply online.

do volunteer work to build up a base of experience, find out if the company/office ever has open house days and attend, go to conferences relevant to the work the company does and find out what kind of people typically get hired into the position you're interested in.

This is all very up in the air and theoretical. Which conferences and where do I find them? Who organizes those conferences? Where is their contact information? Where do I go? Which site are they on? All this information is hidden from me, so I don't know exactly how that will help.

First off, I get that this is not easy. It can sound straight forward when posting on an internet forum, but actually finding contacts, approaching people, initiating conversations, etc. is challenging--even more so if the skill set for this doesn't come to you naturally. Kudos for persisting.

To be fair, I'm not an electrical engineer, but there are some parallels with my own field.

Job shadow opportunities... I had a student come for a job shadow a couple of months ago. He had contacted my manager and simply explained his situation... where he was at in his studies, that he had an interest in the field and he was specific about asking for a job shadow.

Another big option for generating network contracts is volunteering with a national association or organization. In Canadian medical physics, that would be COMP. In the US it would be AAPM. I'm not sure what the equivalent would be for electrical engineering. These groups have committees that write up policies, organize conferences, conduct surveys of the membership, coordinate educational activities, etc. Volunteering is a way of networking in a way that adds value... other people in the field get to know you by working with you, and it becomes something relevant to add to your CV.

Conferences... are there no conferences in your field? How do electrical engineers keep up to date with recent advances? How do the major companies showcase their products? In my field the conferences tend to be quite research oriented, but not entirely so. Admittedly attendance may not be cheap, so it's worth doing your research before hand. But this is where you can talk to people quite freely.


pqp said:
Keep in mind that AI is often used to screen applications so maybe you are not getting past its review. - that's why I always use AI to format my applications.
This could be a flag.
Again, I'm not your field, but if they're detecting AI use in an application, there's a good chance it's going into the auto-reject pile. For one, they might think you're just a bot and not worth investing any time in pursuing as a legitimate applicant. Second, they might think that you're not taking the time to apply to them personally, and if you're not putting effort into the application that doesn't bode well for your prospects as an employee. (Note that I'm not accusing you of not putting the time in... just suggesting that you could be getting automatically rejected because the algorithm is filtering against you.)
 
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  • #32
Choppy said:
Admittedly attendance may not be cheap
For engineering conferences and trade shows, the pass for the exhibit floor is usually free, and you only need to pay to attend the technical lectures and sessions. There is plenty of networking opportunity on a typical exhibit floor, IMO.
 
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  • #33
pqp said:
they are giving you feedback on you.
2. I'm sorry but that doesn't really make sense
You need somebody to tell you, from the outside, how you appear to an interviewer.

When I did this I had a teacher do a mock “interview”. They pointed out a nervous habit I had of wiggling my foot that was very distracting for them but that I didn’t even realize I did. It had nothing to do with engineering, it was feedback on me. I couldn't see what I was doing and I needed that outside critical perspective from someone I trusted.

Similarly with resumes and cover letters.

pqp said:
1. I always mention I am open to relocation.
Good. Are you also applying for opportunities outside of your local area?

pqp said:
I didn't mention I am unemployable because I have no experience because it is trivial reason as to why someone would be unemployed.
I agree. It is a reason but it is rather trivial. You should still work on that reason, but also look for bigger reasons.

You have applied for >1000 positions over 3 years and had no offers. There is some normal statistical variation in the length of a job search. 9 months to 18 months is pretty normal, but in that 9 - 18 month time frame a search should have resulted in dozens of first interviews, many call backs, and at least a couple of offers. Your case of 3 years with nothing is way outside of normal statistical variation. Since it is so far outside of normal variation there must be a concrete reason or reasons that your search is not producing results. You have to find those reasons and address them or you will continue to have an unproductive search.

pqp said:
they told me to simply experiment with everything (which is what I'm doing)
Are you? What experiments have you run?

You mentioned tailoring your cover letter and resume and doing a bunch of research on the company. Have you tried making a generic letter and resume and blasting it out to 5 or 10 times as many companies as you would normally do in a day?

You mentioned using AI to format your resume. Have you tried a non-AI formatted resume for a set of positions?

You mentioned contradictory advice. Have you tried both sides of the contradictory advice on different groups of applications?

pqp said:
Maybe they don't like my physical characteristics? That's the only other thing I can think of.
That is certainly possible. Have your feedback person specifically advise you on that.

pqp said:
I am also an introvert by nature so it just played out that way.
Introversion is interesting. I am also an introvert, and my daughter who takes after me is pretty strongly introverted as well. She also went through college around the same time that you did with similar online schooling and online professors.

Introversion is a personality trait, not a behavior. If you are introverted, then certain social behaviors will be more difficult for you, but can still be done. For example, eye contact, confident body posture, and speaking at a good volume. Those are all behaviors that can be learned and performed by introverts as well as extroverts. Unless an employer administers a personality test, they will base their decisions on your behaviors rather than your personality. If you work on your social behaviors then you do not need to be at any disadvantage, but this is something that you should specifically ask your feedback person to advise you on. Mock interviews are a good tool for that.

pqp said:
I have no social or neurological disorder. I'm not defective if you must know
Neurodivergence isn't defectiveness (at least not at "high functioning" levels). My neurodivergent son is not defective, he has normal traits that are present in everyone but just expressed in him at higher levels than in most people. Because he is neurodivergent he simply needs to adapt accordingly. Don't call neurodivergent people "defective", it is rude.

With that I am done with this thread. Best of luck on your job search. There are concrete reasons that you (specifically and individually) are having such trouble. I hope you can find them. If you don't like the methods I have suggested, then feel free to find those reasons using your own methods. But don't stop until you have clarity on the reasons.
 
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  • #34
pqp said:
that's why I always use AI to format my applications.
That could be part of your problem right there. Human reviewers might find your applications stilted and AI reviewers might automatically recognize and reject an application that is too heavily influenced by AI.

Your resume needs to make you sound human, and with some strong interests in <whatever>.
 
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  • #35
Do you have a Linkedin account? It is a professional social networking service that give you an opportunity to network with persons in your field, find companies you might be interested in, and basically advertise yourself. Sometimes, those working at a company and needing to fill a position can speed up the hiring process by recommending an applicant that HR has missed. A recommendation by an employee can carry a lot of weight. You also might get some insights on the industry that could prove useful.
 
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  • #36
Choppy said:
Again, I'm not your field, but if they're detecting AI use in an application, there's a good chance it's going into the auto-reject pile.
The paradox here, of course, (if you'll indulge the meta-discussion for a moment) is that they all use AI to read and rate the resumes before any human ever sees them. They look for all the keywords and phrases that are in the job description and simply skim off the top of the pile the few per cent that have the highest keyword count.

So, your job as a resume writer is to, in effect, parrot back to them exactly what they are asking for, using as many words as possible that they use - while not making it sound like you're a robot parroting back exactly what they wrote.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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  • #37
Dale said:
Neurodivergence isn't defectiveness (at least not at "high functioning" levels). My neurodivergent son is not defective, he has normal traits that are present in everyone but just expressed in him at higher levels than in most people. Because he is neurodivergent he simply needs to adapt accordingly. Don't call neurodivergent people "defective", it is rude.
An excellent statement that neurodivergence is not a disease and not a defect. With that seemingly accepted, I do not believe that o.p. is saying that he is defective.
 
  • #38
gleem said:
Do you have a Linkedin account? It is a professional social networking service that give you an opportunity to network with persons in your field, find companies you might be interested in, and basically advertise yourself. Sometimes, those working at a company and needing to fill a position can speed up the hiring process by recommending an applicant that HR has missed. A recommendation by an employee can carry a lot of weight. You also might get some insights on the industry that could prove useful.
A thought has come to me while reading that posting. @pqp, maybe you need to spend some effort actively talking to people directly. Another thought but not knowing exactly to suggest what is, @pqp, you NEED some experience regardless if as a paid job or something unpaid which USES your E.E. skill and knowledge. Any "experience" you had before becomes stale and not worth as much as recently experiences.
 
  • #39
symbolipoint said:
. Any "experience" you had before becomes stale and not worth as much as recently experiences.
And it's not going to help to have to explain a three year dry spell. It sucks, but an additional red flag employers will hypothesize about is "why are others not hiring this guy?"
 
  • #40
DaveC426913 said:
And it's not going to help to have to explain a three year dry spell. It sucks, but an additional red flag employers will hypothesize about is "why are others not hiring this guy?"
Yeah, I don't see that OP answered @StatGuy2000 's question of "what have you been doing these past 3 years?" but he is definitely well into "get a job, any job" territory in order to establish that he can in fact get and hold a job.
 
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  • #41
Possibly a need is upon him to completely reorient his job or career search thinking. Look again at the topic title!

Degrees with actual guaranteed jobs after graduation?​

Something in healthcare or related emergency services come to mind. Such choices would require new training. Maybe also new education.
 
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  • #42
russ_watters said:
Yeah, I don't see that OP answered @StatGuy2000 's question of "what have you been doing these past 3 years?" but he is definitely well into "get a job, any job" territory in order to establish that he can in fact get and hold a job.

I did a QA testing position and some retail. I only left the QA testing position on my resume as it was somewhat related to electrical. For the retail, I didn't. I'm not sure what to put to fill in these gaps.
 
  • #43
symbolipoint said:
Possibly a need is upon him to completely reorient his job or career search thinking. Look again at the topic title!

Degrees with actual guaranteed jobs after graduation?​

Something in healthcare or related emergency services come to mind. Such choices would require new training. Maybe also new education.
Something that is at least related to electrical so that I can at least get into electrical engineering in the future.
 
  • #44
StatGuy2000 said:
To the others who have posted:

I see quite a few people who are skeptical of the claims made by the OP (i.e. that they have earned a degree in EE 3 years ago, and have been unable to find a job).

Keep in mind that 3 years ago (and earlier, when the OP was a student) the US and the rest of the world were in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic, which no doubt affected the OP's chances of getting internships, as well as affected their ability to build meaningful connections with professors and fellow students (factors that would have helped with the networking that is key to gaining meaningful employment).

To the OP:

1. What have you been doing during the 3 years since you have completed your degree? Have you had ANY employment whatsoever? How are you supporting yourself? I ask this because oftentimes, employers have a bias against jobseekers with large gaps in employment records (I suspect that machine-learning filters that HR departments use tend to filter out resumes with such large gaps automatically, although I do not specifically have evidence to back this up).

2. Related to this, what types of jobs are you interested in working in? You mention power electronics -- a quick Google search with the entry "power electronics jobs in the USA) came back with 49 job postings in the entire country at the current moment, although it is possible that somehow I may be missing job entries. Are you open to working in another EE field?

3. Have you tried to contact those in management for an informational interview/chat to ask more about power electronics engineer work? These informational interviews are not a job interview per se, but an opportunity to ask questions and network with those who may be in a position to hire people in the future.
1. one QA Testing position and retail.

2. Yes

3. I only get ghosted.
 
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  • #45
symbolipoint said:
A thought has come to me while reading that posting. @pqp, maybe you need to spend some effort actively talking to people directly. Another thought but not knowing exactly to suggest what is, @pqp, you NEED some experience regardless if as a paid job or something unpaid which USES your E.E. skill and knowledge. Any "experience" you had before becomes stale and not worth as much as recently experiences.
I have a linkedin account.
 
  • #46
symbolipoint said:
A thought has come to me while reading that posting. @pqp, maybe you need to spend some effort actively talking to people directly. Another thought but not knowing exactly to suggest what is, @pqp, you NEED some experience regardless if as a paid job or something unpaid which USES your E.E. skill and knowledge. Any "experience" you had before becomes stale and not worth as much as recently experiences.
So sending cold emails to express my interest to as many different people.
 
  • #47
pqp said:
I have a linkedin account.

pqp said:
So sending cold emails to express my interest to as many different people.
Not what I was suggesting! TALK to people, without any impeding form of technology in the way. The idea is to make some impact onto people without putting the communicating into text form.
 
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  • #48
symbolipoint said:
Not what I was suggesting! TALK to people, without any impeding form of technology in the way. The idea is to make some impact onto people without putting the communicating into text form.
So cold calls then.
 
  • #49
pqp said:
So cold calls then.
That would help but is not enough. Cold-calling might be better if some announcement from you that a possible near future call may occur.
 
  • #50
symbolipoint said:
That would help but is not enough. Cold-calling might be better if some announcement from you that a possible near future call may occur.
Okay, then how am I supposed to approach anyone? I don't know anyone and have no connections. I can meet people at conferences sure. But the chances are very slim.
 

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