Demagnetizing effect of toroids or long thin cylinders

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the demagnetizing effect of toroids and long thin cylinders in the context of magnetization and magnetic fields. Participants explore theoretical aspects of magnetic fields within these geometries, including the role of induced surface currents and the computation of magnetic fields using different methods.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the demagnetizing effect in toroids and long thin cylinders can be negligible due to their geometry, particularly in uniform fields.
  • One participant explains that the magnetic field inside a magnetized solid can be computed using magnetic surface currents or the pole method, with the latter being simpler for certain geometries.
  • Another participant highlights that a torus has no magnetic poles, leading to the conclusion that the magnetic field inside is equal to the magnetization.
  • Concerns are raised about the formation of induced currents on the surfaces of samples, with one participant seeking clarification on this phenomenon.
  • A qualitative analogy involving a checkerboard is provided to illustrate how surface currents can form, emphasizing the cancellation of currents in adjacent areas.
  • Participants mention the relationship between magnetization and magnetic moment, as well as the implications of angular momentum in the context of electron orbits.
  • A reference to a previous homework question related to magnetic fields in ferromagnetic cylinders is shared as a potentially useful resource.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the specifics of the demagnetizing effect and the formation of induced currents, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on geometric assumptions, the need for clarification on induced currents, and the potential for differing definitions of magnetization in the literature.

arpon
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I read in the book, "Experiments on paramagnetic materials are usually performed on samples in the form of cylinders or ellipsoids, not toroids. In these cases, the value of the magnetic field inside the material is somewhat smaller than the value of magnetic field generated by the current in the surrounding winding because of the demagnetizing effect of induced currents that form on the surfaces of samples. In longitudinal magnetic fields, the demagnetizing effect may be rendered negligible by using cylinders whose length is much larger than the diameter, or it may be corrected for. In transverse magnetic fields, a correction factor must be applied. We shall limit ourselves to toroids or to long, thin cylinders of paramagnets in uniform fields where the values of the magnetic field are the same inside and outside the sample."
Why demagnetizing effect of toroids or long thin cylinders is negligible?
 
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There are two ways that the magnetic field inside a magnetized solid can be computed. One is from the magnetic surface currents. The second is using the pole method and using ## B=\mu_o H+M ##. The pole method is perhaps the easiest way to see how the magnetic field ## B ## inside the magnetized material with magnetization ## M ## gets reduced because of geometry. The ## H ## consists of contributions from any magnetic poles. The poles are computed as density of magnetic charge (fictitious), ## \rho_m=-\nabla \cdot M ## and using inverse square law to compute the ## H ##. The results the pole method gives for the magnetic field ## B ## are the same as you get by computing magnetic surface currents. For uniform magnetization ## M ##, this gives magnetic surface charge density ## \sigma_m=M \cdot \hat{n} ##. It can be readily seen that a torus has no magnetic poles so that ## B=M ##, and the only poles on a long uniformly magnetized cylinder are on the endfaces (on the long cylindrical surface, ## M ## is perpendicular to ## \hat{n} ## so there are no poles along the surface of the cylinder.) The longer the cylinder, the less effect of the ## H ## of the poles (inverse square law) throughout the major part of the magnetized cylinder. ## \\ ## Incidentally for a uniformly magnetized solid, the magnetic surface currents per unit length ## K_m=M \times \hat{n}/\mu_o ##. (see e.g. Griffith's E&M textbook). The magnetic field ## B ## can alternatively be computed from the magnetic surface current via Biot-Savart's law, but for this case, the pole method offers the simpler mathematics. ## \\ ## Additional note: The effect of the endfaces on a long uniformly magnetized cylinder is to reduce the magnetic field ## B ## by a factor of 2 to ## B=M/2 ## near the endface.
 
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Charles Link said:
There are two ways that the magnetic field inside a magnetized solid can be computed. One is from the magnetic surface currents. The second is using the pole method and using ## B=\mu_o H+M ##. The pole method is perhaps the easiest way to see how the magnetic field ## B ## inside the magnetized material with magnetization ## M ## gets reduced because of geometry. The ## H ## consists of contributions from any magnetic poles. The poles are computed as density of magnetic charge (fictitious), ## \rho_m=-\nabla \cdot M ## and using inverse square law to compute the ## H ##. The results the pole method gives for the magnetic field ## B ## are the same as you get by computing magnetic surface currents. For uniform magnetization ## M ##, this gives magnetic surface charge density ## \sigma_m=M \cdot \hat{n} ##. It can be readily seen that a torus has no magnetic poles so that ## B=M ##, and the only poles on a long uniformly magnetized cylinder are on the endfaces (on the long cylindrical surface, ## M ## is perpendicular to ## \hat{n} ## so there are no poles along the surface of the cylinder.) The longer the cylinder, the less effect of the ## H ## of the poles (inverse square law) throughout the major part of the magnetized cylinder. ## \\ ## Incidentally for a uniformly magnetized solid, the magnetic surface currents per unit length ## K_m=M \times \hat{n}/\mu_o ##. (see e.g. Griffith's E&M textbook). The magnetic field ## B ## can alternatively be computed from the magnetic surface current via Biot-Savart's law, but for this case, the pole method offers the simpler mathematics. ## \\ ## Additional note: The effect of the endfaces on a long uniformly magnetized cylinder is to reduce the magnetic field ## B ## by a factor of 2 to ## B=M/2 ## near the endface.
Thanks for your reply. But I cannot understand why induced currents form on the surfaces of samples.
 
arpon said:
Thanks for your reply. But I cannot understand why induced currents form on the surfaces of samples.
Qualitatively the formation of the surface currents is quite simple. Consider a checkerboard and let an electron do a square counterclockwise orbit around each square of the checkerboard. The electron currents in adjacent squares will precisely cancel, and the net effect will be a current running around the outside of the checkerboard. The electron currents are atomic states so there are no ohmic losses from the net current that appears to run along the outer surface. ## \\ ## The equation ## \nabla \times M=\mu_o J_m ## is quantitatively how the magnetic current density ## J_m ## is computed. At a surface boundary, by Stokes theorem, the result is magnetic surface current density per unit length ## K_m =M \times \hat{n}/\mu_o ##. One additional item is a single magnetic moment is given by ## m=I A ## where ## I ## is the current and ## A ## is the area of the loop. The magnetization ## M ## is ## \mu_o ## multiplied by the number of such loops per unit volume. The magnetization vector points perpendicular to the plane of the loops. Additional item is that when considering z-angular momentum, the computed total angular momentum from all the orbiting electrons will equal that of the surface current. For electron spin, it gets a little more complicated, because of the spin 1/2 and the gyromagnetic ratio of g=2, but in any case, the surface current per unit length ## K_m=M \times \hat{n}/\mu_o ## equation still holds. Note also, for a uniformly magnetized solid, ## \nabla \times M=0 ## except at the surface boundaries. (One final note: You may see two different definitions of magnetization ## M ## in the literature. One uses ## B=\mu_o H +M ## and the other uses ## B=\mu_o H +\mu_o M ##. Both of these are considered SI units. )
 
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