Dependence of deceleration of a moving body with the medium's density

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the deceleration of a moving body and the density of the medium through which it moves, exploring both fluid and solid mediums. Participants examine theoretical models, equations, and the effects of medium properties on drag forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the relationship between deceleration and medium density, referencing Stokes' law for fluids but seeking a model for solids.
  • Another participant suggests that at low speeds, material structure is significant, while at high speeds, inertia may dominate, proposing a velocity squared relationship.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the existence of a theoretical model for drag in solids.
  • One proposed equation attempts to relate deceleration to bulk modulus and density, but its feasibility is questioned by others.
  • Discussion includes the distinction between linear and quadratic drag forces in fluids, noting their dependence on velocity and density.
  • Participants debate whether the principles discussed for fluids apply to rigid solids, with one suggesting that the solid medium may be deformed by the moving object.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for tensorial relationships in solid mechanics to accurately describe the situation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the applicability of fluid drag principles to solid mediums. There are competing views on the relevance of the proposed equations and the role of medium volume in the deceleration experienced by a moving body.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the mathematical description of the problem, particularly regarding the relevance of bulk modulus and the deformation of solids. The discussion reveals a lack of clarity on how to accurately model the interactions between moving bodies and solid mediums.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying mechanics, particularly in the context of solid mechanics and fluid dynamics, as well as individuals exploring the effects of medium properties on motion.

s0ft
Messages
83
Reaction score
0
Is there a relation between the deceleration experienced by a body in motion to the density of the medium? Stokes' law of viscosity is there for fluids.
But how would one calculate the drag on a moving body in solids?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
For low speeds density is not enough information, because the material's structure plays a role. At high speeds, inertia of the material in your way becomes the main factor, so there might be something like a velocity squared law.
 
So is there no theoretical model for it? I'm sure there is something regarding this.
 
Last edited:
I don't know but would an equation like this be feasible? Just a direct manipulation of the definition of bulk modulus of a material. It doesn't include the density of the medium. nevertheless it's given below:
a = AB/dV;
where,
A = Total Surface Area of the projectile
B = Bulk Modulus of the medium
d = Density of the projectile's matter
V = Volume of the medium
and
a = Deceleration experienced by the body
 
Last edited:
There are two main effects contributing to the drag force in a fluid. One is proportional to velocity v, the other is proportional to v2.

Linear drag depends on the viscosity of the fluid, and dominates at lower speeds. Quadratic drag depends on the density of the fluid and dominates at higher speeds. The speed range at which the two become comparable depends on the size and shape of the object, and the viscosity and density of the fluid.

Details can be found at the wiki page:

Linear drag link
Quadratic drag link
 
Does that what you said also hold for rigid, solid bodies?
And is the equation I posted earlier true?
 
No more response?
 
s0ft said:
Does that what you said also hold for rigid, solid bodies?
No, what I said holds for objects moving through gases and liquids.

Moving through solids? I have no idea. Are you thinking in terms of the solid medium being ripped apart as the object moves through it?

And is the equation I posted earlier true?
Not that I know the correct answer, but I don't see how the volume of the medium could possibly come into play. But perhaps you haven't really described the situation you are thinking of accurately.
 
...but I don't see how the volume of the medium could possibly come into play
As a result, yes that seems funny.

Are you thinking in terms of the solid medium being ripped apart as the object moves through it?
Yes, exactly, like a bullet being shot into a block of wood.

But perhaps you haven't really described the situation you are thinking of accurately.
I fear the same.
Could you help me find out what is wrong here and how I could better describe the situation mathematically?

If you're willing to check this, I am sure you would get the same result by simple manipulation of the definition of the bulk modulus of a substance taking into account the deformities caused by a penetrating projectile.
 
  • #10
For a solid, you need to use the tensorial Hooke's law relationship between the stress tensor in the solid and the strain tensor. You also need to include the kinematic relationships between displacements and strains. What you solve for is the displacements as a function of position at time. Included in the differential force balance are the forces resulting from the stresses and the dynamics associated with accelerations of infinitesimal masses (density times differential volume). Mechanical engineers solve problems like this all the time, and, if you want to know more about it, get a book on solid mechanics.

Chet
 
  • #11
Thank you. I'll try to get some info on solid mechanics though I know nothing about tensors.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
10K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K