Derivatives of Energy: 2nd Time Rate of Change, Useless in Physics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the second time rate of change of energy, often referred to as a form of "acceleration of energy." Participants explore whether this notion exists in physics and its relevance or utility in various contexts, including engineering and performance measurement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the existence and usefulness of a term corresponding to the second time rate of change of energy, suggesting it may be non-existent in physics.
  • Another participant asserts that the notion exists as the rate of change of power with time, although it is not frequently needed in practice.
  • A third participant mentions that in race-car performance, various derivatives of position, including jerk and jounce, are measured, implying that higher-order rates of change can be relevant in certain applications.
  • Discussion includes the importance of the change of power in electrical power engineering, indicating its relevance in applied contexts.
  • Some participants note that while the change of power is significant, there is no specific term for it beyond "rate of change of power" or "global growth in power demand."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance and terminology associated with the second time rate of change of energy. While some acknowledge its existence and importance in specific fields, others question its utility in general physics.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the lack of a widely accepted term for the second time rate of change of energy and the potential limitations in its application across different fields of study.

dsaun777
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I have seen the usage of a term which corresponds to changing energy per time and that would be power. Are there any such corresponding terms that can be described as 2nd time rate of change of energy, a sort of acceleration of energy. Is such a notion non existent in physics and completely useless?
 
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dsaun777 said:
a sort of acceleration of energy. Is such a notion non existent in physics and completely useless?
The notion exists - it's the rate of change of power with time - but there aren't that many situations where it's needed. We usually care more about how much energy is being delivered at a given moment then whether it will be more or less a moment later.
 
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In race-car performance measuring, for example, not only velocity (1st derivative of position wrt time), and acceleration (2nd derivative), but also, jerk (3rd), and jounce-snap (4th -- rate of change in rate of change of acceleration), are measured for all of the over-time changes and their accumulating results in every part of each of the torque-rpm pictures.
 
If you include engineering in physics, then change of power is a concept that, not surprisingly, is a pretty important concept in (electrical) power engineering.
 
Filip Larsen said:
If you include engineering in physics, then change of power is a concept that, not surprisingly, is a pretty important concept in (electrical) power engineering.
That's true but we don't have a special word for it. Just "rate of change of power." or "global growth in power demand."
 

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