Deriving Covariant Form of $E_{1}E_{2}|\vec{v}|$

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving a covariant form of the expression $E_{1}E_{2}|\vec{v}|$ in the context of a two-particle scattering problem, focusing on the relationship between energies, momenta, and masses of the particles involved. The scope includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an expression relating $E_{1}E_{2}|\vec{v}|$ to the inner product of four-momenta, suggesting it may involve the invariant properties of the system.
  • Another participant questions the dimensional consistency of the expression, indicating a potential typo in the formulation based on the dimensions of the terms involved.
  • A participant proposes that the expression could be evaluated in the rest frame of one particle, noting that the relationship between the particles' $\gamma$ factors and relative velocity needs further exploration.
  • Concerns are raised about the correctness of the signs in the energy-momentum relation, with a participant indicating that the current formulation leads to an incorrect interpretation of energy and momentum.
  • One participant notes that the right-hand side of the expression becomes a pure imaginary number in a specific frame, suggesting that additional information is necessary to properly assess the validity of the formula.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness and dimensional consistency of the expression, indicating that multiple competing interpretations and uncertainties remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the frames of reference and the definitions of the terms involved, which may affect the validity of the proposed expression.

bananabandana
Messages
112
Reaction score
5
Given a two particle scattering problem with (initial) relative velocity $|\vec{v}|$, apparently the product $E_{1}$E_{2}|\mathb{v}|$ can be expressed in the covariant form:

$$ E_{1}E_{2}|\vec{v}| = \sqrt{ (p_{1}\cdot p_{2} - m_{1}^{2}m_{2}^{2}} $$

My textbook gives no further explanation - how has this been arrived at?
I tried expanding out:
$$ E_{1}^{2}E_{2}^{2}= (m_{1}^{2}- |\vec{p_{1}}|^{2})(m_{2}^{2}-|\vec{p_{2}}|^{2})$$
But this doesn't seem to go anywhere useful at all.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The expression given doesn't look right on dimensional grounds. ##p_1\cdot p_2## has dimensions of ##[M^2]## in c=1 units, but ##m_1^2m_2^2## has dimension ##[M^4]##. I suspect a typo somewhere.
 
More helpfully, I think that (whatever the correct answer is) this comes from the inner product of the two four-momenta. In the rest frame of one of the particles it's easy to work out its value, which is an invariant and includes your ##\vec v##. You've some work to do in a general frame in order to relate the particles' ##\gamma## factors to that relative velocity. Presumably it drops out somehow.

Note that I haven't worked through this myself - I'm just going on the combination of inner product of three momenta, product of energies and product of masses looking a bit like an inner product.

By the way, you have your signs wrong in your last expression. ##E^2=m^2+p^2##. The way you have it, energy decreases as momentum increases.
 
bananabandana said:
E1E2|→v|=√(p1⋅p2−m21m22

In the frame where 1 is staying still, p1=0, the right hand side becomes pure imaginary number. More information is needed to read this formula, if it is right, properly.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K