Deriving Lorentz Transformations: Hyperbolic Functions

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of Lorentz transformation equations using hyperbolic functions. Participants explore the implications of the hyperbolic equation $$-c^2t^2 + x^2 = k$$ as the parameter $$\beta$$ approaches 1, questioning the physical meaning and mathematical validity of this limit in the context of special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the expression $$-c^2t^2 + x^2$$ approaches 0 as $$\beta$$ approaches 1, suggesting it should remain a constant $$k \neq 0$$ due to frame invariance.
  • Others propose that the equation describes the trajectory of a particle moving at speed $$v$$, leading to the expression $$-c^2t^2 + v^2t^2 = (\beta^2 - 1)c^2t^2$$, but note that this does not imply constancy.
  • Some participants clarify that while $$-c^2t^2 + x^2$$ is frame invariant, it does not equate to a constant value across different frames.
  • There is a discussion on the implications of a particle having constant speed $$v$$, with some arguing that the equation cannot describe such a scenario unless the particle is massless.
  • Participants express the need for more detailed explanations of the professor's derivation and the assumptions made, particularly regarding the limit taken as $$\beta$$ approaches 1.
  • Some participants suggest that the transformation preserving the hyperbola can be represented using hyperbolic functions, leading to the relationship between $$\gamma$$ and $$\beta$$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement on the interpretation of the limit as $$\beta$$ approaches 1 and whether it leads to a valid conclusion about the constancy of $$-c^2t^2 + x^2$$. There is no consensus on the professor's approach or the implications of the hyperbolic functions used in the derivation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion is limited by the lack of access to the professor's full derivation and lecture notes, which are necessary for a complete understanding of the arguments presented.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and educators interested in the mathematical foundations of special relativity, particularly those exploring the use of hyperbolic functions in deriving Lorentz transformations.

  • #31
Orodruin said:
Huh? What do you mean by this? How is it connected to what I said which was a statement regarding the relation between the invariance of the spacetime interval amd the invariance of the speed of light?
It's not.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
That's true. In the usual way of deriving the LT, going back to Einstein's famous paper of 1905, is to use his "two postulates", which is (a) the special principle of relativity, i.e., the existence and indistinguishability of inertial reference frames and (b) the independence of the speed of light from the relative velocity between the light source and any inertial observer. In addition one tacitly assumes that for any inertial observer space is a 3D Euclidean affine space (implying its symmetries, i.e., translation and rotation symmetry) and the homogeneity of time (translation invariance in time).

First from the special principle of relativity we find that a free particle is moving with constant velocity with respect to any inertial frame of reference, and this implies that the transformation between two reference frames must be linear.

Now we consider the special case that we keep the directions of the spatial Cartesian bases the same for both frames of reference and consider only boosts in ##x## direction, i.e., then
$$c t'=A c t + B x, \quad x'=C ct + D x, \quad y'=y, \quad z'=z. \qquad (1)$$
We have assumed without loss of generality that the origins of space and time in both frames are chosen to be the same (if not, you can just redefine the coordinates by a time or space translation, which doesn't change anything because of the assumed homogeneity of time and space).

Now the 2nd postulate tells us that the wave front of a spherical em. wave switched on at ##t=0## from a source located at ##\vec{x}=0## obeys
$$c^2 t^2-\vec{x}^2=0, \qquad (2)$$
and the same must hold in ##\Sigma'##, i.e., from (2) it necessarily follows also
$$c^2 t^{\prime 2}-\vec{x}^{\prime 2}=0,$$
i.e., there must be some factor ##\alpha## such that
$$c^2 t^2 - \vec{x}^2=\alpha (c^2t^{\prime 2}-\vec{x}^{\prime 2}).$$
Plugging in (1) you find
$$c^2 t^2 - \vec{x}^2=\alpha [(A c t + B x)^2 - (C ct + D x)^2-y^2-z^2]. \qquad (3)$$
Since this must hold for all ##\vec{x}## comparing the coefficients of ##y^2## and ##z^2## on both sides of the equation, it follows ##\alpha=1##. So (3) reads with ##\alpha=1##
$$c^2 t^2 -x^2 = (A^2-C^2) c^2 t^2 + 2 (AB-CD) ct x + (B^2-D^2) x^2.$$
Since this must be true for all ##(ct,x)## you find
$$A^2-C^2=1, \quad AB-CD=0, \quad B^2 - D^2=-1.$$
The rest then follows as shown by @Orodruin in #25.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Orodruin
  • #33
Samama Fahim said:
On p. 18, Robinson writes:
" corresponds to This corresponds to a vector with only a temporal component and no spatial component."

Why is that?
He explains why on the page, referencing equation (1.74). If you apply (1.75) to a four-vector and use ##\beta = 0## (what this implies for ##\sinh## and ##\cosh## is on p.18 explicitly too) you can see this explicitly.
 
  • #34
throw said:
He explains why on the page, referencing equation (1.74). If you apply (1.75) to a four-vector and use ##\beta = 0## (what this implies for ##\sinh## and ##\cosh## is on p.18 explicitly too) you can see this explicitly.
When ##\beta = 0##, the transformation matrix we have, using 1.78, is the identity matrix. Applying this matrix to a four vector should leave this vector unchanged. Shouldn't it? And if this 4-vector has non-zero spatial components, they should be left untouched as well.
 

Similar threads

Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 54 ·
2
Replies
54
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 101 ·
4
Replies
101
Views
7K
Replies
8
Views
991
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K