Design a system to measure the electroretinogram (ERG)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around designing a system to measure the electroretinogram (ERG), focusing on the necessary components, circuit design, and sensor placement. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of the design, including amplifier circuits and filtering techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the specific design of the ERG sensors and their placement, noting that one electrode is placed on the cornea and another serves as a reference on the body.
  • There is a suggestion to begin with determining the desired sampling rate based on signal bandwidth, followed by designing the differential amplifier circuit and filtering elements.
  • One participant mentions the importance of understanding digitizing systems, including anti-alias filters, in the context of ERG measurement.
  • Participants discuss the configuration of the differential amplifier, with emphasis on the need for accurate electrode placement and the distinction between the active and reference electrodes.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy and informativeness of diagrams shared, with suggestions for better resources on differential amplifier design for biomedical applications.
  • Questions are posed regarding the choice of resistor values for the differential amplifier and the filter topology for the anti-alias filter, along with the rationale behind these choices.
  • Participants express a need for clarity on the sample rate chosen for the ADC and the reasoning behind it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the fundamental components and considerations for designing the ERG measurement system, but there are differing opinions on the accuracy of diagrams and specific design choices, indicating an unresolved discussion on these technical aspects.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions regarding the design parameters, dependence on specific definitions of electrode placement, and unresolved details about the circuit configuration and component selection.

benderlee
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Homework Statement
Design a system to measure the electroretinogram (ERG). Use a differential amplifier to maximize the CMRR, and condition the signal appropriately for a 16-bit A/D system with input range ±10 Volts. Give all component values.

Suggest an appropriate sampling rate, assuming that all noise has been sufficiently attenuated by the time the signal reaches the digitizer, and give the resolution of the signal in V/bit at the digitizer.


ERG bandwidth= 0-300 Hz

ERG dynamic range = ± 1 mV
Relevant Equations
(See attached image)
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Welcome to the PF. :smile:

Thanks for posting some of the relevant equations. Now please show us your work on the solution. Also, what do the sensors for an ERG look like, and where are they placed?
 
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benderlee said:
I am truly stumped by this one, looking for more information online myself and was seeing if anyone in this great community knows anything about this, so far I found this:

https://webvision.med.utah.edu/book/electrophysiology/the-electroretinogram-erg/
That's a helpful link. So it looks like one ERG electrode is placed on the cornea, and the other is attached to the patient's body for reference.

So start with the desired sampling rate (how is it based on the signal bandwidth?), and design the differential amplifier circuit and other gain elements and filter elements next. Are you familiar with designing digitizing systems, including anti-alias filters? That is all part of this problem you are working on.

You can also probably do some reading about ECG and EEG measurement systems, since they will share a lot of the same design components (they will have different bandwidth and pickup voltages, but the rest is pretty similar).
 
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So this is how the actual circuit would be set up 😊
 

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benderlee said:
So this is how the actual circuit would be set up 😊
Did you draw that, or find it somewhere? A differential amp has two signal inputs, not three.
 
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This is a diagram from a textbook - attached is another diagram from another text. that is more or less the same with a ground, reference, and corneal electrode:
 

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Also FYI: in the ERG, the differential amp records the difference between the active electrode (attached to the cornea) and the reference electrode (attached to the outer canthus). The ground electrode is attached to the forehead.
 
benderlee said:
This is a diagram from a textbook
That's not a very accurate or informative diagram, unfortunately. Hopefully you are learning about differential amplifier design for biomedical applications from a better and more detailed textbook or application notes.
benderlee said:
Also FYI: in the ERG, the differential amp records the difference between the active electrode (attached to the cornea) and the reference electrode (attached to the outer canthus). The ground electrode is attached to the forehead.
So the diff amp inputs should come from closely spaced electrodes at the eye, and the "ground"/reference connection comes from some other large part of the body nearby. The "ground"/reference connection goes into the overall amplifier circuit, not into the diff amp itself.

So show us what you have figured out so far. What resistor values have you chosen for your diffamp and why? What filter topology and component values have you chosen for your anti-alias filter and why?

What sample rate have you chosen for your ADC and why?
 
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