Design of Mechanism for Moving Soil -- Need help with an instability

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design and stability of a mechanism intended for moving soil, particularly in the context of agricultural applications such as seed transplanting. Participants explore various design ideas, stability concerns, and the functionality of the mechanism.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a mechanism that moves soil using steel plates attached to chains and gears, expressing concerns about its stability due to high forces from a hydraulic cylinder.
  • Several participants seek clarification on the mechanism's operation, including whether it is pulled by a tractor and the direction of travel.
  • Some participants mention existing technologies like bucket chain and bucket wheel excavators, suggesting these designs may offer insights into stability and functionality.
  • There are questions about the specific agricultural tasks the mechanism is intended to perform, such as whether it extracts seedlings or covers holes after planting.
  • One participant notes that the mechanism's stability may depend on its attachment to the tractor or another machine, raising questions about the design's balance and forces involved.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity of the original post, with some participants expressing confusion over the mechanism's design and purpose.
  • Another participant points out potential issues with the mechanism's operation, such as how it handles soil and the effects of obstacles like stones.
  • Discrepancies in the description of the mechanism's function lead to further questioning and clarification requests from other participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints regarding the mechanism's design and functionality, with no consensus reached on its stability or operational details. Multiple competing interpretations of its purpose and effectiveness remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the provided information, noting that key details about the mechanism's operation, dimensions, and specific agricultural tasks are unclear or contradictory.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in agricultural engineering, machinery design, and soil movement mechanisms may find the discussion relevant.

Micheal_Leo
Messages
103
Reaction score
4
This mechanism move the soil through steel plates attached to chain and gears.The mechanism is unstable since there will be high Fx and Fy of hydrualic cylinder,Any other way to stable mechanism ? or any other design ideas please
Thank you
Capture.PNG
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
What does this machine do?
Is it pulled through the soil by a tractor?
Which way does it travel?
A plough or a ripper tine will be lower at the front, so it pulls down, into the soil.
Is the front on the left in the diagram?
 
Thank you for reply.This mechanism extract soil when tractor moves during harvesting and also soil transport .The sharp edge at front is used to remove soil and the steel plates will used for move the soil on base plaform
 
There are bucket chain excavators used in mining. Also bucket wheel excavators which use rubber transport belts. These are old designs that have been well tested ..... (?)
 
Reply
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Micheal_Leo
Micheal_Leo said:
This mechanism extract soil when tractor moves during harvesting and also soil transport.
What is being harvested?
Is this a side view or a plan view?
Stability comes from the way it is attached to the tractor. Where are the attachment points?
 
Reply
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Micheal_Leo
hutchphd said:
There are bucket chain excavators used in mining. Also bucket wheel excavators which use rubber transport belts. These are old designs that have been well tested ..... (?)
yes it is same with my mechanism
 
Baluncore said:
What is being harvested?
Is this a side view or a plan view?
Stability comes from the way it is attached to the tractor. Where are the attachment points?
crops harvested but also remove soil at the same time
This is Front view
This mechanism attached with another machine not tractor and the attached point is this
1731513751512.png
 
Micheal_Leo said:
This is Front view
Are you sure? It looks to me like a side view with the front pointed to the right.

The wheel on the lower right appears to be attached to the frame while the scoop below appears to be attached to the hydraulic cylinder and hinged on the left. This means that the clearance between belt and scoop is variable, right?
 
Micheal_Leo said:
yes it is same with my mechanism

What part is the same? What is your "instability" exactly?
 
  • #10
I don't yet have a clue as to what that machine does, which way is up, how it works, or how big it might be.

Maybe it is just my remote mind reading ability that is failing me.
I don't feel too bad though since, if the OP actually wanted assistance, they would have provided those necessary details.
 
Reply
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: hutchphd and berkeman
  • #11
My best guess is that we are talking about an elevating tractor-scraper.
1731614239332.png

Edit: linked to the design section of the Wiki article on the subject.
 
Last edited:
Reply
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Micheal_Leo, berkeman and Bystander
  • #12
Baluncore said:
I don't yet have a clue as to what that machine does,
One can fall in love with graphics and forget about the practicalities if a pretty design . I'm assuming that the wheels rotate clockwise and the soil is lifted by that wedge. The design could work for sand and fine gravel but what happens when a single stone gets trapped in the channel below?

The OP seems to expect us to get the whole picture on minimal description.
 
  • #14
The towed scraper generates a surface from the weighted average of the tractor's rear wheels and the scraper's wheels. That is an interpolation, it will lower the spatial frequency, and always attenuates the undulations in the surface. The wide wheelbase of the scraper better follows the regional cross-slope, again interpolating and attenuating.

A front pusher blade, like on a bulldozer, or a front-end-loader bucket, performs an extrapolation of level, forwards from the vehicle wheelbase. That will always increase the spatial frequency of, and amplify, the ground undulations.
 
Reply
  • Informative
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Micheal_Leo, hutchphd and berkeman
  • #15
berkeman said:
But on a smaller scale, $12 on e-Bay:
Yes, but that's just for the brochure (not the scraper itself).
 
Reply
  • Haha
Likes   Reactions: sophiecentaur
  • #16
renormalize said:
Yes, but that's just for the brochure (not the scraper itself).
Oh jeeze! I wondered why it was so cheap! o0)
 
  • #17
hutchphd said:
What part is the same? What is your "instability" exactly?
since there is only one cylinder on other side no cylinder so tilt will happen on one side
 
  • #18
Baluncore said:
I don't yet have a clue as to what that machine does, which way is up, how it works, or how big it might be.

Maybe it is just my remote mind reading ability that is failing me.
I don't feel too bad though since, if the OP actually wanted assistance, they would have provided those necessary details.
the function of this mechanism is to covered the hole where seed transplanting take place.Means there wil be hole created and seed will goes on than the mechanism that i have design will adjust soil for covering of holes


THis mechanism build for agriculture mechanization engineering
 
Last edited:
  • #20
  • #21
Micheal_Leo said:
the function of this mechanism is to covered the hole where seed transplanting take place.Means there wil be hole created and seed will goes on than the mechanism that i have design will adjust soil for covering of holes
"Seed transplanting"?

Is the point to extract seedlings from a field, place seeds in the resulting holes and cover them up?

Is the point to dig holes, place seedlings into the holes and cover them up?

Seeds are normally handled with "planters" or "drills" in a one pass operation on a prepared field.
1731833473087.png


How does the machine you have drawn help accomplish any of this? How is it drawn through the soil? Which way does it move? Is soil being extracted? Deposited? Is the conveyor powered? Which way does it move? Where does the dirt come in? Where does the dirt go out? What sort of seeds or seedlings are to be handled? Does this machine handle them or does it just move soil afterward? What machines currently exist to perform these tasks?

Why are you being coy and refusing to provide any useful information?
 
Reply
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Bystander and Micheal_Leo
  • #22
jbriggs444 said:
"Seed transplanting"?

Is the point to extract seedlings from a field, place seeds in the resulting holes and cover them up?

Is the point to dig holes, place seedlings into the holes and cover them up?

Seeds are normally handled with "planters" or "drills" in a one pass operation on a prepared field.
View attachment 353609

How does the machine you have drawn help accomplish any of this? How is it drawn through the soil? Which way does it move? Is soil being extracted? Deposited? Is the conveyor powered? Which way does it move? Where does the dirt come in? Where does the dirt go out? What sort of seeds or seedlings are to be handled? Does this machine handle them or does it just move soil afterward? What machines currently exist to perform these tasks?

Why are you being coy and refusing to provide any useful information?

1731835063782.png

please see this how it works
 
  • #23
jbriggs444 said:
Why are you being coy and refusing to provide any useful information?
It is because we are being trolled.
Baluncore said:
What is being harvested?
Micheal_Leo said:
crops harvested but also remove soil at the same time
Which all contradicts:
Micheal_Leo said:
the function of this mechanism is to covered the hole where seed transplanting take place.
 
Reply
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: jbriggs444
  • #24
Baluncore said:
It is because we are being trolled.


Which all contradicts:
Little bit misinformation happen between me and colleagues so less information delivered
 

Similar threads

Undergrad Vibration in jack: up and down movement
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Undergrad How Does Changing Mass and Spring Force Affect Watch Oscillators?
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
Internal Combustion engine - evolution regarding parasitics
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Mechanism Needed for a Compact, High-Torque Transradial Prosthetic Arm
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
Designing a Geneva Mechanism: Overcoming Challenges
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
Mechanical/Aerospace Engineering Undergrad Senior Design Project
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Mechanical Advantage on Gym Machines
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
873
Misc. Attach plates (my design) to the stator core of the machine
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Need help with balsa tower design
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Undergrad Does a rotating accelerometer moving linearly measure linear velocity?
  • · Replies 47 ·
2
Replies
47
Views
5K