Determine the total electrostatic potential energy

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves determining the total electrostatic potential energy of a nonconducting sphere with a uniform charge distribution. The original poster presents their calculations and compares their result with the textbook answer, noting a discrepancy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the potential energy using the volume charge density and the electric potential inside the sphere. They express concern over a factor of two difference between their result and the textbook answer.
  • Some participants question the potential contributions in the integral and the implications of double counting interactions between charge elements.
  • Others suggest reconsidering how the potential is calculated for the entire system versus individual charge elements.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring the implications of double counting in the calculation of potential energy. Clarifications about the potential contributions from different charge elements are being discussed, but no consensus has been reached yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are examining the assumptions related to the potential used in the calculations and the integration limits. There is a focus on the correct interpretation of the potential energy formula in the context of continuous charge distributions.

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Homework Statement



Determine the total electrostatic potential energy of a nonconducting sphere of radius r_0 carrying a total charge Q distributed uniformly thorughout its volume.

Homework Equations



U = qV

The Attempt at a Solution



\rho = \frac{Q}{4/3\pi r_0^3} = \frac{dq}{4\pi r^2dr}

Electric field inside a nonconductor sphere
V = \frac{kQ}{2r_0}(3-\frac{r^2}{r_0^2})

dU = Vdq

= \frac{kQ}{2r_0} (3 - \frac{r^2}{r_0^2}) \rho4\pi r^2 dr
= \frac{2kQ\pi\rho}{r_0}(3r^2 -\frac{r^4}{r_0^2} )dr

After integrating it over [from zero to r_0], I end up with the following result

\frac{3Q^2}{10\pi r_0 \epsilon_0}

But the correct answer according to the textbook is this.

\frac{3Q^2}{20\pi r_0 \epsilon_0}

It's almost the same result but missing a factor of two in the denominator. Is it because of the potential equation? Solutions manual uses potential at the surface, but in my answer I use potential inside a nonconductor. That may be the reason of 1/2. (kq/r_0 vs kq/2r_0* (3 - r^2/r_0^2))
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This is a common mistake of "double counting". Suppose you had a system of 3 point charges. It is tempting to calculate the energy as ##U = \sum_{i=1}^3q_iV_i## where ##V_i## is the potential at the location of the ith charge due to the other two charges. But if you write out the terms explicitly you will see that you are counting the interaction of each pair of charges twice.
 
TSny said:
This is a common mistake of "double counting". Suppose you had a system of 3 point charges. It is tempting to calculate the energy as ##U = \sum_{i=1}^3q_iV_i## where ##V_i## is the potential at the location of the ith charge due to the other two charges. But if you write out the terms explicitly you will see that you are counting the interaction of each pair of charges twice.

I can see that we've double counted the pairs in your example. But where exactly am I doing that in my solution?
 
In the integral ##\int V dq##, ##V## represents the potential of the entire system at the point where ##dq## is located. So, consider two particular elements of charge ##dq_1## and ##dq_2##. The integral will include contributions ##V_1 dq_1## and ##V_2 dq_2##, where ##V_1## is the potential of the entire system at the location of ##dq_1## and ##V_2## is the potential of the entire system at ##dq_2##.

Note that ##V_1## will contain a contribution from ##dq_2## of the form ##\frac{k\; dq_2}{r_{12}}## where ##r_{12}## is the distance between ##dq_1## and ##dq_2##. So, the expression ##V_1 dq_1## contains a contribution of the form ##\frac{k\; dq_2\; dq_1}{r_{12}}##, which is the potential energy of interaction between ##dq_1## and ##dq_2##. But, by the same reasoning, you can see that ##V_2 dq_2## contains the same contribution again. So, the interaction between ##dq_1## and ##dq_2## is being counted twice.
 

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