Did Moses Predict the Big Bang Theory?

[ahrkron]

The very expression "tele" that you use comes from Greek but it requires a concept and not just linguistic, of course.

Of course. However, that has nothing to do with my point. My point can be exemplified like so: some ancient cultures' cosmology used the concept of chaos; then, as time passes, the same word is used to describe a quite different concept, much more precise and experimentally (phenomenologically) justified. At that point, saying that the ancient cultures "had it right" is nonsense, since their version of the concept was a different one. In a sense, the fact that we use the same word is an unlucky accident.

Also, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that ancient people were in any way less able to understand nature, or any such thing. In every age, there are people strongly devoted to understanding things without resorting to mysticism or dogmatic revelation. We do the same nowadays in physics labs and elsewhere.

It's us the ones who use the notion of "atom" by Greek importation of the word and concept, so though they didn't have our modern devices they had the notion of something "undivisible".

Again, there were two options: either the word was continuous all the way down, or started from undivisible components. The only way to decide among the options is experiment. If it had been that the world kept being continuous no matter the scale, you would now be saying that the other camp had it solved from the times of the greek philosophers, but you also would be doing it after the fact.

Words and symbols are not independent knowledge;

Of course not, but your using the word "independent" does not constitute a proof that you know all about linear algebra, even if such is concept used in that field.

Of course greek philosophers had some things right, but you seem to think that stating "space is curved" or "order came from chaos" is all there is to general relativity and cosmology. It is definitely not so. There are volumes of information missing from those phrases. Those one-liners are just catchy expresions included in pop sci books to let people touch the tip of the iceberg. Real science and philosophy need much more rigor and depth of analysis.

 

[Nereid]

The Maya did indeed have many achievements, in astronomy as well as other fields. So too did many other societies/civilisations, in South and Central America, in Asia, in the middle East, and so on.

The writings of many of these civilisations has been lost, and for quite a few, the surviving texts and inscriptions haven't been fully deciphered yet. For example, one of the links oscar provides says that "about one third of the [Mayan] pictorial characters have yet to be deciphered".

There can be no doubt that many very clever people lived in these old societies; nor that many of these developed means of making systematic obsevations of natural phenomena, of recording and (to some extent) analysing them, and of passing on the distilled knowledge to (then) future generations.

Where records have been well kept - as in China, for example - detailed study of the approaches and methods used by our ancestors is possible, and fascinating reconstructions are possible. Of course, many mysteries remain.

However, IMHO, the more we learn about these ancient (and some not so ancient) civilisations, the more it becomes clear that they were made up of people just like us - no brighter, no duller; no more peaceful, nor warlike; and so on. In particular, the more we know of them, the more clear it becomes that they did not have access to some deep wisdom or knowledge that has been lost. Indeed, it sometimes seems that less we know of a civilisation, the more fantastic the claims made about it.

Inventing hyper-dimensional gods to pass great knowledge into the minds of our otherwise dull ancestors seems to me a kind of insult to those ancestors; their achievements are what they are without any 'help'.

 

[oscar]

Well, for people who didn't have computers (that's progress accumulated through time) if we could rewind the history tape and give them computers and modern calculations, I wonder what they could achieve. Now, what a change in your point of view after some pages...for people who were saying that knowledge was "nothing". I never said the ancient people said "ALL THAT THERE IS" about science. If you understood that, it's your crossed-eyed vision. If with all that "rigor" with modern technology you can figure out 100 different thesis and hypothesis, well, well, well, allow me to keep on giving more details from what Mr. Science himself considers "catchy".
Mr. Nereid first needs to know URGENTLY Mayas' language was never "dead" as he wrote, before daring to say talking about gods was an insult to them. THEY WERE THE ONES WHO TALKED ABOUT GODS IN FIRST PLACE or you ignore that, Mr. Wise Man? So, on the contrary, far from insulting them I'm just setting the things in the right order. For Christ' sake, when someone who doesn't know even the basic history of the Mayas says "the more we know of them" it's really not an insult. It's an awful joke! If what is known astonishes the historians and astronomers, imagine what we can know about when the rest of the information is decoded.
And I repeat AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. When the Incas or Mayas, or Egyptians did something usually they recorded what was achieved. But exactly the more astonishing deeds were frequently omitted and that is one of the most unanswered questions of the scholars. Some deed, and I'm talking in this context about calendars, were a gift from their gods. They said themselves. If a modern scientific mind wants to give them the glory of something they never admitted to invent, now, that is a non-scientific argument based upon "faith".
Of course they didn't know "all about algebra" cos I have said and REPEAT A 1000 TIMES, they didn't discover the formulas by themselves, it was already stablished what was important and what was irrelevant.
Of course the Mayas were not any less able to know about nature. What an idiotic statement after I have given enough information they indeed knew more and predicted eclipses. That's not cliché. That's a fact. If ignorance kept you out from Mayas' or Inca's universe all the time you were reading the same old crap about Greeks, that's your fault. Before saying the version of ancients regarding some "words" are different from modern phenomenically aspects, the one who writes should know what language is he talking about. Is he talking about Japanese concept of dwarf person called "chaos" or what? I have mentioned specifically even before the existence of the word chaos coming from Greek "kaos" THE CONCEPT IN HEBREW ALREADY EXISTING AND ORDER CAME OUT FROM THAT CHAOS. That is exactly the modern concept,you can adorn it with complicated formulas but IT IS THE SAME THING. I have explained the concept of time was already detailed in the fact the days of creation stablished a difference between "day ONE" in ordinal number differently from "second day" and following which are in cardinal number in Hebrew and several other details I have given for the ones who want to re-read again to compare. You,ignored that with your favorite attitude of jumping information. That's why you always get back to square one wandering around in circles. Now, we have a scientific mind that uses the same cliché and repetitive answer "unlucky accident". No, Mr, there were no accidents at all, the only thing happening here is proposital unawareness. The Mayas didn't have astronomers, Sr. they had astrologers. So, if you say in all times there were people who were not motivated by mysthicism, I have to say YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN. Not only in the past but until modern times. Einstein was a mysthic and so Newton, Mendeleiev, Leonardo Da Vinci and Ramanujan. So, if you want to discourage the idea in a subtle way to disregard as if mysthicism was something worthless, again and again and million times, YOU CONTINUE TO BE EXTREMELY IGNORANT.
Yet, you haven't answering my questions about your scientific "choices", each one of you in this "path of modern knowledge" and scientific bla-bla-bla that one day says one thing, the other day says other, the third day announces the same leftover of 13 years ago, the 4th day resurrects the final option and then says another thing.

 

[ahrkron]

even before the existence of the word chaos coming from Greek "kaos" THE CONCEPT IN HEBREW ALREADY EXISTING AND ORDER CAME OUT FROM THAT CHAOS. That is exactly the modern concept, you can adorn it with complicated formulas but IT IS THE SAME THING.

No, it isn't. That is precisely my point. Do you really think that the phrase "order came out from chaos" is all there is to modern cosmology? It is not. It is a pedagogical resource used in pop sci books, but no real work is done on the basis of such hugely vague and incomplete descriptions.

 

[ahrkron]

Of course the Mayas were not any less able to know about nature. What an idiotic statement...

Try to read things in context, and stop the name calling altogether. It can only get you banned.

 

[oscar]

Please, don't confuse ALL THE WORK DONE REGARDING A C-O-N-C-E-P-T with the concept itself. If you continue to compare religious book purpose with scientific purpose, the idiotic statement and the repetition of "all that there is" remains. Don't worry if I'm banned or not. I AM ALREADY BANNED, I CAN'T POST IN MOST OF THE PLACES HERE, THE ONLY REASON I'M ALLOWED HERE WAS COS MODERATOR WANTS TO KNOW HOW FAR WE GO ON IN THIS DISCUSSION.
Why don't you answer the questions about the immensely vague concepts letting have 100 different modern theories, you moron?

 

[Doc Al]

Please, don't confuse ALL THE WORK DONE REGARDING A C-O-N-C-E-P-T with the concept itself. If you continue to compare religious book purpose with scientific purpose, the idiotic statement and the repetition of "all that there is" remains. Don't worry if I'm banned or not. I AM ALREADY BANNED, I CAN'T POST IN MOST OF THE PLACES HERE, THE ONLY REASON I'M ALLOWED HERE WAS COS MODERATOR WANTS TO KNOW HOW FAR WE GO ON IN THIS DISCUSSION.

Oh really?

Why don't you answer the questions about the immensely vague concepts letting have 100 different modern theories, you moron?

After several warnings you persist with the insults, name calling, and rude behavior. Enough is enough.