Differentiation, change of variable

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves proving a relationship between second derivatives of a function U defined in Cartesian coordinates and its equivalent in polar coordinates, where x and y are expressed in terms of polar variables ρ and φ. The original poster expresses uncertainty about how to begin, particularly regarding assumptions about the function U.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to compute partial derivatives of the polar coordinates with respect to Cartesian coordinates. There are questions about the assumptions that can be made regarding the function U, and the application of the chain rule is suggested as a potential approach.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the necessary steps to approach the problem, including the use of the chain rule and the correct expressions for the polar coordinates. There is no explicit consensus on the assumptions to be made about the function U, but guidance has been offered regarding the derivatives needed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of correctly identifying the relationships between Cartesian and polar coordinates, as well as the need to apply the chain rule appropriately. There is an acknowledgment of the original poster's uncertainty about the function's form and the implications of that uncertainty on the problem-solving process.

thenewbosco
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The question:

if [tex]x=\rho cos \phi[/tex] and [tex]y=\rho sin\phi[/tex]

prove that if U is a twice differentiable function of x and y that

[tex]\frac{d^2U}{dx^2} + \frac{d^2U}{dy^2} = \frac{d^2U}{d\rho^2} + \frac{1}{\rho}\frac{dU}{d\rho} + \frac{1}{\rho^2}\frac{d^2U}{d\phi^2}[/tex]

i am not sure how to approach this since the function is not given. Is there some assumption i am supposed to make about the function? like f(x,y) = xy or something?
any help on the first couple steps would be appreciated
 
Last edited:
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With a rather more transparent notation, let u be a function of the polar coordinates, U the function in Cartesian coordinates, related by:
[tex]u(\rho(x,y),\theta(x,y))=U(x,y)[/tex]

With this notation, you would have lower case u's on your right-hand side of the identity.

You need to compute the partial derivatives of the radial&angular variables with respect to x and y.
 
thenewbosco said:
i am not sure how to approach this since the function is not given. Is there some assumption i am supposed to make about the function?

Have you tried the chain rule?
 
so [tex]\rho (x,y)= ((\frac{x}{cos \phi})^2 + (\frac{y}{cos \phi})^2)^\frac{1}{2}[/tex]?

and [tex]\phi(x,y)=arctan(y/x)[/tex] is this correct?
 
to what would i apply the chain rule?
 
No, [tex]\rho(x,y)=\sqrt{x^{2}+y^{2}}[/tex]

That ought to be obvious for anyone claiming to have understood Pythagoras' second most important theorem.
 
so after i compute these derivatives of the radial and angular components with respect to x and y i will have everything and just have to put it all together so it looks like the identity i am trying to show?
 
No, you must also use the chain rule on u.
To give you a start on that:
[tex]\frac{\partial{U}}{\partial{x}}=\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{r}}\frac{\partial{r}}{\partial{x}}+\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{\theta}}\frac{\partial{\theta}}{\partial{x}}[/tex]
and so on..
 
where your r is actually a rho i assume then? if so thanks for the help i should be able to solve this one
 
  • #10
Yes, r is rho.
 

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