Discontinuities in intervals of integration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around how to handle discontinuities within an interval of integration, focusing on different types of discontinuities such as infinite, jump, and removable discontinuities. Participants explore the implications of these discontinuities on the integration process, including the validity of certain properties and the context in which integrals are evaluated.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that infinite discontinuities necessitate the use of improper integrals.
  • Others argue that for jump discontinuities, the summation property of integrals can be applied, allowing the integral to be split at the points of discontinuity.
  • There is confusion regarding removable discontinuities, particularly whether the definition of these points affects the validity of the summation rule.
  • Some participants assert that removing points of discontinuity, particularly those of measure zero, typically does not affect the total area under the curve.
  • Concerns are raised about the completeness of theorems regarding integrability, questioning whether functions with removable discontinuities can still be considered integrable.
  • Lebesgue integration is mentioned as a method that allows for more flexibility in dealing with discontinuities, with some participants suggesting it may be covered in future courses.
  • The Dirac delta function is discussed as a special case that complicates the classification of discontinuities.
  • Participants note that the interpretation of integrals can vary based on the type of curve and the context of the problem, indicating that integration is not always straightforward.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the treatment of discontinuities in integration, and the discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly concerning the completeness of existing theorems and the implications of different types of discontinuities.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of discontinuities and the context of integration problems. There is also an acknowledgment that the discussion does not cover all possible interpretations or methods of integration.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners in mathematics, particularly those studying calculus and integration techniques, as well as those interested in advanced topics like Lebesgue integration.

PFuser1232
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I want to make sure I understand how to deal with discontinuities when they lie within an interval of integration.

Infinite Discontinuities
In this case, do we always resort to improper integrals?

Jump Discontinuities
If there is a finite number of jump discontinuities in the integration interval, we could always use the following property:
$$\int_a^b f(x) dx = \int_a^c f(x) dx + \int_c^b f(x) dx$$

Removable Discontinuities
We deal with removable discontinuities in a similar way to how we deal with jump discontinuities. What I find confusing, though, is the fact that there are two types of removable discontinuities. The function may or may not be defined at a point of discontinuity. Does this make any difference? Or is the summation rule still valid in this case?
 
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The summation rule is still valid. There may be special cases, like the Dirac delta, but most of the time, removing a point, or set of points (i.e. a set of measure zero), will not impact the total area under the curve.
 
In order to know what to do you have to know why you are doing the integral in the first place.
If the question is just "find the integral of..." then you have to infer from what "find the integral" means.
i.e. you need to understand what you are doing rather than just try to memorize the rules.

Remember that the idea of an integral is to find an area ... work out which area the problem needs you to find and you are there.
 
Simon Bridge said:
In order to know what to do you have to know why you are doing the integral in the first place.
If the question is just "find the integral of..." then you have to infer from what "find the integral" means.
i.e. you need to understand what you are doing rather than just try to memorize the rules.

Remember that the idea of an integral is to find an area ... work out which area the problem needs you to find and you are there.

The only type of definite integral I'm familiar with is the Riemann integral. Is there another interpretation for the area under a curve?
 
RUber said:
The summation rule is still valid. There may be special cases, like the Dirac delta, but most of the time, removing a point, or set of points (i.e. a set of measure zero), will not impact the total area under the curve.

There was a theorem in Stewart's Calculus about how we define integrability. "If ##f## is continuous on ##[a,b]##, or if ##f## has a finite number of jump discontinuities in ##[a,b]##, then ##f## is integrable on ##[a,b]##."
Is this theorem incomplete? Isn't ##f## allowed to have a finite number of removable discontinuities as well?
 
I think Simon Bridge was right in that it depends on the application. Take a look at Lebesgue integration if you want to be free to remove discontinuities indiscriminately. The jump discontinuities ensure that the function is still finite over the interval, where a removable discontinuity has more possibilities.
Also, look at the Dirac delta for another example of why just saying "removable discontinuity" is not sufficient.
 
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MohammedRady97 said:
There was a theorem in Stewart's Calculus about how we define integrability. "If ff is continuous on [a,b][a,b], or if ff has a finite number of jump discontinuities in [a,b][a,b], then ff is integrable on [a,b][a,b]."
Is this theorem incomplete? Isn't ff allowed to have a finite number of removable discontinuities as well?

The function f can have up to a countable number of discontinuities as long as it is bounded over [a,b].
 
RUber said:
I think Simon Bridge was right in that it depends on the application. Take a look at Lebesgue integration if you want to be free to remove discontinuities indiscriminately. The jump discontinuities ensure that the function is still finite over the interval, where a removable discontinuity has more possibilities.
Also, look at the Dirac delta for another example of why just saying "removable discontinuity" is not sufficient.

Will I learn about Lebesgue integration in Calculus II? Or will I have to wait till analysis?
 
MohammedRady97 said:
Will I learn about Lebesgue integration in Calculus II? Or will I have to wait till analysis?

You will have to wait to take a real analysis course. And not a Spivak level course, but a course that would, for example, use Rudin or Pugh
 
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  • #10
RUber said:
Also, look at the Dirac delta for another example of why just saying "removable discontinuity" is not sufficient.

The Dirac delta is not really a function in the classical sense. In either case, it would be unfair to say that the Dirac delta has a removable discontinuity. That is not what is meant with the term removable discontinuity.
 
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  • #11
The only type of definite integral I'm familiar with is the Riemann integral. Is there another interpretation for the area under a curve?
That is OK for now - but there are lots of different kinds of curves. What you have to do for the integration will depend on the curve type and what the context is.
i.e. a curve may have large gaps where the function is undefined - in general you cannot integrate this; but the problem may only be interested in the area where the curve is defined or it may be possible to do the integration in a coordinate system where the gaps vanish or are unimportant.

You'll notice that there are very big books written about calculus - even just those about how to do integrations.
There is no way to give a totally inclusive and complete answer, in detail, which also fits into the box.
You will learn more in the advanced courses.
 
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