Discrete distribution taking only non-negative integer values

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a specific proof related to discrete distributions in probability theory, particularly focusing on the manipulation of summations and the concept of expected value for non-negative integer values. Participants explore the notation and reasoning used in the proof, as well as the implications of interchanging summation orders.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between the left-hand side (LHS) and right-hand side (RHS) of the first line of the proof, indicating a lack of clarity regarding summation notation.
  • Another participant explains that the first line of the proof involves replacing P(X ≥ i) with the summation of probabilities P(X = j) for j starting from i, clarifying the meaning of the inequality.
  • A later reply notes that the order of summation can be interchanged, highlighting that the summation variable (i) does not affect the summand anymore, leading to the simplification that the sum of 1's over j equals j.
  • One participant suggests an alternative approach to the proof by starting from the definition of expected value, although they acknowledge this might make the proof less readable.
  • Another participant raises a caution about interchanging the order of summation in infinite sums, suggesting that additional restrictions are typically required for such manipulations to be valid.
  • A request for clarification is made regarding how the limits of summation change from infinity to j, indicating ongoing confusion about the proof's steps.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the proof, with some agreeing on the steps taken while others raise concerns about rigor and notation. The discussion remains unresolved as participants continue to seek clarification and express differing viewpoints.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about interchanging summation orders, particularly in the context of infinite sums, which some participants note should be elaborated upon in a formal setting.

rickywaldron
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I can't seem to wrap my head around the types of sums used in probability theory, and here is a classic example. Section 6.1 of this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expect...ution_taking_only_non-negative_integer_values

The first line of the proof, what is going on here? I know how summation works, except I can't see the relation between the LHS and the RHS

Then the last step, I can't see how the second summation goes away and is just replaced by a j!
I always get confused by this notation but when I understand it intuitively I am much more comfortable.

Thanks
 
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In the first line of the proof, they are replacing
[tex]P(X \ge i) = \sum_{j = i}^\infty P(X = j)[/tex]
which is basically just writing out what the inequality sign means (if X is greater than or equal to i, then it is equal to i, or i + 1, or i + 2, etc).

Then they interchange the order of the summation and note that nothing in the summation depends on the summation variable (i) anymore, and they use
[tex]\sum_{i = 1}^j 1 = 1 + 1 + \cdots + 1 \text{ ($j$ times)} = j[/tex]
 
Thanks, really good response
 
In fact, looking at the proof, I would probably put it the other way around, starting from the definition [itex]E[X] = \sum j P(X = j)[/itex]. This makes the proof a bit less readable perhaps, the tricks described above seem to come even more from thin air as they do now, but that is quite typical in mathematical proofs, I think.

Also, if you want to be very rigorous: when dealing with infinite sums it is generally not allowed to interchange the order of the summation without additional restrictions on the summand. So when handing this in as an exercise for a class you would want to elaborate a bit on that, I guess.
 
@CompuChip Could you please explain how the summation interchanged. I could not get how limits of i changed from infinity to till j. Thanks.
 

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