Discuss the World Cup 2010: England vs. USA

[Gokul43201]

no seriously...why was that clock counting up? I wanted to know when it would end, and then I got the feeling it never would...

When the length of the period is known (and most people watching a soccer game know that each half lasts 45 min + injury time) the choice of counting up vs counting down is usually nothing more than a matter of convention. However, the addition of injury time is one good reason to count up. Would you rather see the clock count up from 45 to 49 or down from 0 ot -4?

In principle no one watching a soccer game (not even the ref) knows when it will end until the injury time (typically 2 to 5 mins) has been set. The official FIFA scoreboard displays the team names, scores, game time as well as the injury time to be added. So, for instance, if you see: < KOR (2) ~ 85.00 ~ GRE (0) ~ 4 >[/color] that means you are 85 minutes into the game, with 5 minutes of regulation play left and 4 minutes of injury time to be added on (total 9 minutes more till the end).

PS: Cyrus - was kidding with my previous post.

 

[D H]

Watching the Algeria v Slovenia match at the moment they will have a couple of good practise matches to get it right which I'm thankful for.

Those won't be ordinary practice matches. Neither England nor the US wants to be the second team to advance from group C as that team will almost certainly get to play Germany in the round of 16. That tie between the US and England pretty much guarantees that Group C has some brutal games in the offing.

 

[D H]

Algeria - Slovenia (0-0)

That was looking like a good prediction for the first 70 minutes of the match. That red card in the 72th minute makes this prediction suspect. We'll see if Slovenia can take advantage of the situation.

Update: Yes, they can.

 

[zomgwtf]

wow still scoreless for ghana/serbia game.

 

[Gokul43201]

That red card in the 72th minute...

I saw that coming (a day ago).

 

[zomgwtf]

Red card serbia! WOW! He was holding him but a second yellow card? Idk... he shouldn't have been playing so rough already having 1 yellow though.

 

[zomgwtf]

Red card serbia! WOW! He was holding him but a second yellow card? Idk... he shouldn't have been playing so rough already having 1 yellow though.

Ghana wins after a penalty shot awarded for a hand ball. 1-0 final score. Good **** blackstars!

 

[cristo]

Ghana wins after a penalty shot awarded for a hand ball. 1-0 final score. Good **** blackstars!

Well, of all my bad result predictions, I really didn't think I'd be wrong on that one. Ghana should have had no chance!

 

[zomgwtf]

Well, of all my bad result predictions, I really didn't think I'd be wrong on that one. Ghana should have had no chance!

I don't know, Ghana has been a pretty decent team on the world stage for a long time. Not so much this year but a lot of their games they were playing second string players all the time. However I didn't think they played soo great, just better than Serbia.

 

[fluidistic]

The funny thing until now is that many goal keepers criticized the ball of this world cup. According to them, it takes strange paths in the air, and it is made against goal keepers and we should see more goals. Until now, 7 matches were played and 9 goals were scored. Only 9, less than any world cup with the same number of matches played...

 

[Borek]

The funny thing until now is that many goal keepers criticized the ball of this world cup. According to them, it takes strange paths in the air, and it is made against goal keepers and we should see more goals. Until now, 7 matches were played and 9 goals were scored. Only 9, less than any world cup with the same number of matches played...

That's because at the same time ball plays its tricks on other players, so they are unable to pass it or shot on goal with success.

 

[Gokul43201]

All 3 games today had a red card come out (the Germans didn't need that extra help though).

 

[Monique]

For tomorrow:

Netherlands - Denmark (1 - 0)
Japan - Cameroon (0 - 1)
Italy - Paraguay (2 - 0)

 

[estro]

All 3 games today had a red card come out (the Germans didn't need that extra help though).

The red card for Tim Cahil was ridiculous.

Netherlands - Denmark (1 - 0)
Japan - Cameroon (0 - 1)
Italy - Paraguay (1 - 0)

 

[cristo]

June 14th:

Netherlands - Denmark (2-0)
Japan - Cameroon (1-0)
Italy - Paraguay (3-1)

 

[Dadface]

Netherlands-Denmark 1,0
Japan-Cameroon 1,1
Italy-Paraguay 1,1

 

[D H]

Netherlands - Denmark (1-0)
Japan - Cameroon (1-0)
Italy - Paraguay (1-1)

 

[rootX]

Netherlands - Denmark (0-1)
Japan - Cameroon (0-1)
Italy - Paraguay (1-0)

 

[estro]

Italy - Paraguay (3-1)

If you get this right, I'll give you one of my points!

 

[BobG]

June 14

Netherlands - Denmark (2-0)
Japan - Cameroon (1-2)
Italy - Paraguay (2-0)

 

[zomgwtf]

June 14
Netherlands - Denmark (2-1)
Jpan - Cameroon (0-2)
Italy - Paraguay (2-1)

 

[kakarotyjn]

Why you guys make the scores for Netherlands so little?I think Netherlands is pretty good now.

Netherlands - Denmark (3-1)
Japan - Cameroon (2-2)
Italy - Paraguay (1-1)

 

[Gokul43201]

This is an hour too late to count, but I'll put my guesses in just for the heck of it (not to be counted for the points tally):

Netherlands - Denmark (2-1)
Japan - Cameroon (1-1)
Italy - Paraguay (2-1)

 

[Gokul43201]

If you get this right, I'll give you one of my points!

Duly noted.

 

[Gokul43201]

Results:
Algeria - Slovenia (0-1)
Serbia - Ghana (0-1)
Germany - Australia (4-0)


Scoring Table

Member      June 13 Score      Cumulative Score
-----------------------------------------------
Bob               3                   4
estro             3                   4
Gokul             3                   7
Monique           3                   4
rootX             3                   3
Zomgwtf           2                   2
cristo            1                   2
D H               1                   3
Dadface           -                   1
cronxeh           -                   0
kakarotyjn        -                   -

Please make sure I got all your scores right. A hyphen next to your name means you either did not turn in an entry, or you posted it after the 6AM GMT deadline. Names are sorted in descending order of the last set of points (not cumulative points). Degeneracies are broken by the dealer's sorting of the day (alphabetical today).

 

[cristo]

If you get this right, I'll give you one of my points!

Haha, thanks, but I'm not sure I share your pessimism: Italy are a good side!

Now, unfortunately, I'm not going to be in the country for the rest of the week and there might be a chance of me having no internet, so I'm going to give my predictions now (sorry, Gokul, that you'll have to look back this far when awarding points!)

June 15:

New Zealand - Slovakia (0-2)
Cote d'Ivoire - Portugal (2-2)
Brazil - DPR Korea (4-0)

June 16:

Honduras - Chile (0-3)
Spain - Switzerland (3-1)
South Africa - Uruguay (1-2)

June 17:

Argentina - (South) Korea (3-1)
Greece - Nigeria (0-1)
France - Mexico (1-1)

June 18:

Germany - Serbia (3-0)
Slovenia - USA (0-0)
England - Algeria (2-0)

 

[estro]

Haha, thanks, but I'm not sure I share your pessimism: Italy are a good side!

I hope so, I'm actually support Italy, but Pirlo absence is a real blow.

 

[D H]

Netherlands v Denmark: Beautiful header! Wrong goal!

 

[zomgwtf]

June 14
Netherlands - Denmark (2-1)
Jpan - Cameroon (0-2)
Italy - Paraguay (2-1)

Hmmm well, I figured Dennmark would score but apparently not . Cameroon isn't playing as I thought they would vs. Japan. Ugh.

 

[D H]

Netherlands - Denmark (1-0)

If it weren't for that own goal I would have been spot-on here.

Hmmm well, I figured Dennmark would score but apparently not .

Denmark did score. They just put the ball in the wrong goal.

The way I see it, between yesterday and today, unprofessional play (three silly red cards, one own goal) has cost me a minimum of 4 PF World Cup points. Hey! This is important stuff here. An appeal to all teams in the World Cup: Start playing a bit more professionally. (England excepted of course. They can keep making Hand of Clod goals if they so desire.)

 

[brother time]

Well the dutch are rated #4 in the world so...

Any questions on the rules? ( I am a soccer ref at regional level)
cheers, BT

 

[zomgwtf]

Wow Cameroon stepped up the pressure basically entire team was attacking the net. Japans keeper had to make like 4 saves in the last lke 6 minutes of play. Cameroon was thwarted by a crossbar and by 2 incredible saves by the keeper, really incredible saves especially that last one.

 

[brother time]

June 15
SVK 1 vs NZL 0
CIV 1 vs POR 2
BRA 4 vs PRK 0

 

[cristo]

June 14th:

Netherlands - Denmark (2-0)
Japan - Cameroon (1-0)
Italy - Paraguay (3-1)

Wow, I'm two for two with the first games of today. Now for the prediction that estro doubts!

 

[D H]

June 15:

New Zealand - Slovakia (0-2)
Ivory Coast - Portugal (0-1)
Brazil - Korea DPR (3-0)

Portugal vs. Ivory Coast was a tough one.

 

[BobG]

Any questions on the rules? ( I am a soccer ref at regional level)
cheers, BT

Sure.

1) GK charges out of goal to make save against break-away attacking player and ball is bouncing toward goal line. Both players are chasing ball with attacking player in lead (since GK had to pick himself up from ground). Attacking player is clearly going to be first to ball and GK slides between attacking player and goal in desperation, hoping to make save - except attacking player is lucky to even keep the ball from going over the goal line. Both players wind up 6 feet beyond the goal line, ball near the intersection of goal box and goal line. Attacking player once again is first to start moving toward ball, so GK grabs attacker's ankle and holds on, preventing attacking player from re-entering the field to reach ball and allowing a defender to come back and clear the ball over the sideline.

Call, cards, restart?

2) Offense has indirect free kick on defenders' 6 yard line. The nearly perfectly executed indirect kick is headed toward the top corner when defender boosts himself up on teammate's shoulders and heads the ball over the cross bar.

Call, cards, restart?

3) Because of a couple of major injuries, game A has about 10 minutes of stoppage time still to be played when game B within the same group finishes. The score of game A is tied and both teams realize they will advance to the knockout round if the game remains tied; while either team would be eliminated by a loss. A player from one of the teams holds the ball at his foot until he realizes no one from the other team is going to challenge him; then sits down on the field next to the ball to wait out the last 10 minutes.

Call, cards, restart? (This is only farfetched by degree. There's a reason both of the last games in each group have to start at the same time. Everyone hopes to prevent the fiasco of the West German-Austria match in the 1982 World Cup in which both clubs kicked the ball around the field aimlessly for the last 80 minutes of the match. And it's not even far fetched by degree if you consider youth soccer. I can't remember which state, but one of their tournament games ended exactly this way rousing some tremendous outrage from many people.)

4) And one last youth soccer dumb coach tricks. He drills his team on quick restarts after offside calls (interesting tactic - American youth coaches are so cute). His team pulls off the offside trap, but catches the offense so far offside they don't even bother to chase the ball. It comes to a stop in front of the GK who has come out about 40 yards from her own goal, but she refuses to pick the ball up, since the whole point is to get the quick indirect free kick restart. Finally, after about 20-30 seconds have gone by, one of the players originally caught offside trots down the field to force the issue, except the GK still doesn't pick up the ball. Eventually, the offensive player reaches the ball, dribbles around the GK and down the field to score.

Correct call? Or should it have been offside as soon as the offensive player finally made a play on the ball?

 

[estro]

June 15:

New Zealand - Slovakia (0-2)
Ivory Coast - Portugal (1-1)
Brazil - Korea DPR (4-0)

 

[BobG]

June 15:

New Zealand - Slovakia (0-1)
Ivory Coast - Portugal (2-3)
Brazil - Korea DPR (4-0)

 

[D H]

Sure.

1) GK charges out of goal ...

Red card & PK.
The keeper has not only violated the 13th law, he has violated the 18th law. Football/soccer has 17 published laws. The unpublished 18th law, "the spirit of the game," is paramount here.

2) Offense has indirect free kick ...

No foul, I think.

3) ... then sits down on the field next to the ball to wait out the last 10 minutes.

Yellow card for wasting time, indirect free kick for the other team. Passing the ball back and forth (and back and forth and back and forth) for 10 minutes is one thing. At least the ball is moving. If one of the teams wants to change the pace they are free to do so. Sitting down on the ball is quite another matter.

 

[Dadface]

New Zealand-Slovakia(1,0)
Ivory Coast-Portugal(0,2)
Brazil- Korea DPR(3,0)

 

[Gokul43201]

June 15:

New Zealand - Slovakia (0-1)
Ivory Coast - Portugal (1-2)
Brazil - Korea DPR (4-0)

Need a volunteer to take up scoreboard duty today and tomorrow.

 

[D H]

Italy - Paraguay (1-1)

Yes!

 

[jreelawg]

June 15:

New Zealand - Slovakia (0-3)
Ivory Coast - Portugal (1-3)
Brazil - Korea DPR (4-0)

 

[zomgwtf]

June 15

New Zealand - Slovakia (0-2)
Ivory Coast - Portugal (1-1)
Brazil - Korea DPR (3-0)

 

[BobG]

Red card & PK.
The keeper has not only violated the 13th law, he has violated the 18th law. Football/soccer has 17 published laws. The unpublished 18th law, "the spirit of the game," is paramount here.


No foul, I think.


Yellow card for wasting time, indirect free kick for the other team. Passing the ball back and forth (and back and forth and back and forth) for 10 minutes is one thing. At least the ball is moving. If one of the teams wants to change the pace they are free to do so. Sitting down on the ball is quite another matter.

Wrong, wrong, correct.

A foul can only occur on the field of play, so no penalty kick. (Red card might still be correct if you felt holding the ankle was violent conduct). Correct restart is a dropped ball (off field misconduct) or a throw in if the ref isn't willing to consider the ankle hold as violent conduct or if the ref felt the holding only reached the level of violent conduct after the ball left the field of play. Realistically, the GK has to be sent off for something just for the 18th law you mentioned.

Using a teammate's body to increase the height of one's jump is unsporting conduct (acts in a manner which shows a lack of respect for the game). It's illegal whether he uses a teammate's shoulders, runs up a teammate's back, or is physically lifted by a teammate (none of that rugby crap here). It's a red card for denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity by an offense punishable by a free kick (an indirect free kick in this case). Restart is an indirect free kick since the game was stopped for misconduct, not the ball going over the bar. (You have to go back 3 or 4 decades to one of the IFAB interpretations to find this one, so it's practically a verbal tradition passed down generation to generation). Of course, one has to be careful to figure out whether the player was pushing off of his team mates shoulders to launch himself, or feeling for danger since he was making a blind landing (i.e. - it had better be blatant).

Last is correct for the same reason - acts in a manner which shows a lack of respect for the game. In the '82 World Cup game, no action was taken during or after the game. Considering the outcry after the game, it would be hard to say the teams didn't act in a manner that showed disrepect to the game (or in a manner that brought the game into disrepute, as worded then), so that probably wasn't a great decision by the referee (but I wouldn't have wanted to be the first referee to handle that situation). I'm not so sure a team would get away with that now. If you watch the last group games, the situation is sure to come up at least once and notice one team or the other sends the ball into their opponent's end at least once in a while to keep up some pretense that the game is still being played and I don't think that's coincidence.

 

[Monique]

New Zealand - Slovakia (1 - 2)
Ivory Coast - Portugal (0 - 1)
Brazil - North Korea (2 - 0)

 

[D H]

Wrong, wrong, correct.

1. You edited the post after I made mine. In your initial version the keeper grabbed the person within the field of play (i.e., close to the six yard line). The foul occurred on the field of play.

2. Yeah, I can see that. Rule 18 is for the most part word of mouth. The unsportsmanlike conduct at the levels at which I refereed is distinctly different from the unsportsmanlike conduct at the highest levels of play.

 

[BobG]

Actually, the edit was to add the fourth situation.

But it's always harder to visualize something you read rather than actually see, since all but the slowest readers tend to skip words when they anticipate what the words will say.

 

[zomgwtf]

Need a volunteer to take up scoreboard duty today and tomorrow.

Sure, no problem, if everyones cool with it:

Results:
Netherlands - Denmark (2-0)
Japan - Cameroon (1-0)
Italy - Portugal (1-1)


Scoring Table

Member      June 14 Score      Cumulative Score
-----------------------------------------------
D H               5                   8
cristo            4                   6
Dadface           3                   4
kakarotyjn        3                   3
Bob               2                   6
estro             1                   5
Monique           1                   5
zomgwtf           1                   3
rootX             0                   3
Gokul             -                   7  (too late right)
cronxeh           -                   0
brothertime       -                   0
jreelawg          -                   0

I don't think I've missed anyone. If I did or I added something up incorrectly just post.

 

[D H]

Actually, the edit was to add the fourth situation.

Off-field fouls are always a bit tricky. I read your first situation as a foul on the field. Like you said, I anticipated what you were writing rather than reading. When I did referee (and coach, and organize) I had to deal with situations that never arise at high levels of play. A field with a chain link fence six feet from the foul line that tears up players who "just happen" to be pushed into it. Aunts, uncles, moms, and dads taunting players and fighting with one another. The ugly fence was one thing; dealing with and later hearing about those fightin' aunties and uncles on a talk radio show was one of the reasons I stopped volunteering my time. 1000 cell phone calls in two months was another reason.