Distance over which friction acts to make object roll

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    Friction Roll
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem from Morin's textbook regarding the work done by friction in transitioning a body from pure translational motion to rolling motion. Participants explore the distance over which friction acts and the relationship between the distances traveled by different points on the body during this transition.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the distance over which friction acts, noting that Morin's solution indicates friction does not work over the initial distance but rather a different distance.
  • Another participant explains that friction arises from the relative motion of surfaces in contact, suggesting that as the ball begins to roll, the relative motion decreases, affecting the distance over which friction acts.
  • A participant proposes that once the ball starts to roll, the point in contact with the ground should have zero velocity after covering the same distance as the center of mass (COM), questioning the visualization of this concept.
  • Another participant clarifies that pure translation lasts for a very short time, indicating that the body will begin to rotate almost immediately, losing linear velocity while gaining angular velocity until rolling occurs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanics of friction and the distances involved in the transition from sliding to rolling. There is no consensus on the exact nature of the distances or the mechanics at play.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the work-energy theorem and the conditions under which friction acts, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of distances and the transition mechanics.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and educators in physics, particularly those studying dynamics, rotational motion, and the effects of friction in mechanical systems.

Abhishek11235
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In Morin's textbook,he ask a problem of the work done by friction in making body roll if the body initially starts with pure translation (i.e sliding motion). However I didn't get require answer(via Work Energy theorem) and I gave up. I checked solution and I became confused. He tells that friction doesn't work over the distance d
Screenshot_2019-02-16-09-25-32.jpeg
(The distance from start position to the position at which body begins to roll) but at a distance given in screenshot. Now the point at which friction acts will travel the same distance as other points on body travel. Then,why friction acts shorter distance?
 

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Abhishek11235 said:
why friction acts shorter distance?
Friction arises from the relative motion of surfaces in contact. Since the ball has started to roll, the relative motion is less than if it had not rolled. The difference is the angle of rotation (in radians) multiplied by the radius.
 
haruspex said:
Friction arises from the relative motion of surfaces in contact. Since the ball has started to roll, the relative motion is less than if it had not rolled. The difference is the angle of rotation (in radians) multiplied by the radius.
Consider ball initially in pure translation. Friction acts over this ball. Now we can find the distance when it begins to roll. Call it D. At this friction become static. Now consider the point in contact with ground. This will have 0 velocity once it starts to roll after a certain distance. Now this distance shouldn't be equal to distance D? It comes at 0 velocity after it has covered same distance as COM? I think I am not able to visualize it. Can you elaborate it?
 
Abhishek11235 said:
Consider ball initially in pure translation. Friction acts over this ball. Now we can find the distance when it begins to roll.
Pure translation lasts for no time. It will immediately start to turn, but not fast enough to be rolling. It will lose linear velocity but gain angular velocity until the two match and it transits to rolling.
 

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