Do humans increase Entropy at a faster rate?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between human activity, entropy, and the concept of thermal equilibrium in the universe. Participants explore whether systems further from equilibrium increase entropy at a different rate compared to those with higher entropy, and whether human influence affects this process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that systems further away from equilibrium may increase entropy faster than those with high entropy, questioning if this influences the universe's approach to thermal equilibrium.
  • Others argue that while humans and living organisms can create local decreases in entropy, the overall net change in entropy remains positive, potentially more so than in a lifeless scenario.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about whether the overall increase of entropy for the universe is greater in low entropy dissipative systems compared to higher entropy systems, questioning if this is knowable.
  • Another participant suggests that the rate of change in entropy may depend on the current entropy level, indicating that two systems could exhibit the same rate of change under certain conditions.
  • One post mentions that low entropy corresponds to large energy differences, and that while diffusion processes may be limited, life could represent a more productive pathway towards total equilibrium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the relationship between entropy and human influence, with no consensus reached on whether humans increase entropy at a faster rate or how this relates to thermal equilibrium.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the conditions under which entropy changes occur, and the dependence of these changes on the current state of the system. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of how human activity interacts with thermodynamic principles.

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Do systems further away from equilibrium increase entropy faster than a system with a high level of entropy and does this increase push the universe towards thermal equilibrium faster. Is there anything stopping the universe from reaching thermal equilibrium?
 
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Humans, and living things in general, are an organizing influence - i.e. "local" entropy changes tend to be negative.
Overall, the net change in entropy is going to be positive, and it will be a bigger positive number than if the life were not present.
On the scale of the Universe, the human impact entropy change is not detectable.

I don't know of anything in mainstream models that opposes the laws of thermodynamics.
 
Simon Bridge said:
Humans, and living things in general, are an organizing influence - i.e. "local" entropy changes tend to be negative.
Overall, the net change in entropy is going to be positive, and it will be a bigger positive number than if the life were not present.
On the scale of the Universe, the human impact entropy change is not detectable.

I don't know of anything in mainstream models that opposes the laws of thermodynamics.

Thanks for the response and this is the answer I was looking for. So what has a greater overall increase of entropy for the universe, low entropy dissipative system or a system with a higher level of entropy? Is this knowable?
 
Last edited:
You mean "Does the rate of change in entropy depend on the current entropy level?"
I think the answer is "it depends". You could probably set up two systems that fit your description and have the same rate of change.
 
Simon Bridge said:
You mean "Does the rate of change in entropy depend on the current entropy level?"
I think the answer is "it depends". You could probably set up two systems that fit your description and have the same rate of change.

Thanks for the responses, they helped!
 
Low entropy mean large energy differences. Diffusion equation cannot works unlimited. Large energy differences makes flows that are more productive but have less entropy, because is organizing. Some say that the life is a more productive physical way to the total equilibrium.
 

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