Do you suffer from an affective disorder?

[HeLiXe]

lisab!

 

[micromass]

Lately I have had a strange thing going on with me, mentally...I'm not sure what it means.

Like, I feel like no one will give me up or let me down. And no one will run around and desert me. No one will make me cry, or say goodbye, or tell a lie and hurt me.

What do you suppose this is all about?

Oh my, lisab! That's a serious case of Rickitis.

 

[wolram]

Lately I have had a strange thing going on with me, mentally...I'm not sure what it means.

Like, I feel like no one will give me up or let me down. And no one will run around and desert me. No one will make me cry, or say goodbye, or tell a lie and hurt me.

What do you suppose this is all about?

Thats a thread killer

 

[rhody]

Thats a thread killer

Wolram,

This thread is in no danger of that, and I invented the thread killer gig, it worked last week, one time only... no chance it is needed again here.

Rhody...

 

[cobalt124]

..."little islands of relief"...

I was slowly coming to this conclusion myself, in my case with my obsessive, single minded approach to things I never allowed this to happen. Time to do things a bit differently.

...activities that for short periods (days to a week"...

So far I have managed a day, two tops.

...but what's the difference between OCD and attention to detail when not doing a job correctly can get you or someone else killed?...

IMO the difference is why attention is being paid to detail, and the why is important, for the individual as well as anybody else, and from a safety at work point of view. I wouldn't trust an affective disorder in a safety at work issue.

 

[MarcoD]

Messages posted on the MSN Health message board in response to a news story reporting that antidepressant medications are placebos were examined. Over 37 days, 1,624 messages were posted by 1,238 unique authors. The sampling unit consisted of 960 authors who were users. Users' messages were gathered in real time and content analyzed. Few users explicitly responded to the question posed in the article: 2.5% of the users stated their antidepressant was a miracle drug, 2.0% stated it was a poison, and only 0.2% stated it was a placebo. Users reported positive experiences with antidepressants more than twice as often as they reported negative experiences.

The problem is that this is a game where you either receive $10k or they drive a bullet through your head. How much do you think the benefits should outweigh the detrimental consequences in a game like that?

Btw. The studies are too simplistic since they don't do a real benefit/cost analysis.

[Anyway, the Effexor statistics are lies. It is widely known to be the antidepressant which most feel has the worst effects, and on its predecessor, the are medically published journals which questioned the risks involved with that medicine.]

IMO. The medicine is not helping anyone, at least not society as a whole. We would be better off without the whole field.

 

[bohm2]

IMO. The medicine is not helping anyone, at least not society as a whole. We would be better off without the whole field.

What's your opinion on the usefulness of "talk" or cognitive and behavioural therapies (e.g. CBT, mindfulness, ACT) in comparison to medication? Do you think society as a whole would also be better of without those therapies? I'm asking because I've had experience with both sides and I'm still not decided myself. I had short-term success with both but it seems like a life-long struggle for me, at least, with with respect to controlling/living with my anxiety.

 

[Evo]

The problem is that this is a game where you either receive $10k or they drive a bullet through your head. How much do you think the benefits should outweigh the detrimental consequences in a game like that?

Btw. The studies are too simplistic since they don't do a real benefit/cost analysis.

[Anyway, the Effexor statistics are lies. It is widely known to be the antidepressant which most feel has the worst effects, and on its predecessor, the are medically published journals which questioned the risks involved with that medicine.]

IMO. The medicine is not helping anyone, at least not society as a whole. We would be better off without the whole field.

Anecdotes are not scientific facts. Please link to the peer reviewed scientific studies that verify your claims.

 

[micromass]

[Anyway, the Effexor statistics are lies. It is widely known to be the antidepressant which most feel has the worst effects, and on its predecessor, the are medically published journals which questioned the risks involved with that medicine.]

IMO. The medicine is not helping anyone, at least not society as a whole. We would be better off without the whole field.

For what it's worth: I'm a user of efexor. And it has helped me tremendously. I also have almost no side effects from the medication!
I am very happy that medication exists. I could not live without it.

Prescribing medication is not an exact science. What helps for somebody doesn't help for another person. This is well-known of course.

 

[Evo]

I've also taken Effexor with no side effects and then quit, now back on Zoloft.

Marco, anecdotal evidence isn't sufficient to prove anything, sorry. There are lots of people that believe a lot of nonsense, like the misinformation on vaccines.

 

[Evo]

Marco an online petition is probably the worst kind of anecdote, it's people with no proof making unproven claims.

Do not post it again.

 

[micromass]

Also, it is not ok to stop efexor cold turkey. Apparently, many people do this. This will indeed lead to withdrawal symptoms. You should go to your doctor and make a plan to withdraw of efexor.

Apparently, many people choose to do cold turkey suddenly without informing their doctor. One should never do this without a consulation with a doctor!

 

[bohm2]

Anecdotes are not scientific facts. Please link to the peer reviewed scientific studies that verify your claims.

Irving Kirsch has done a lot of work questioning the efficacy of SSRIs with respect to depression. Just follow links in wiki. His more recent article is second link below. I'm still unsure how strong his arguments are. In the field (in NA), nobody seems to take them very seriously. I'm not absolutely certain, but I think I would have been screwed if not for medication (benzodiazepines-8 year use) to get me past a major hump in my life.

His conclusion:

Drug–placebo differences in antidepressant efficacy increase as a function of baseline severity, but are relatively small even for severely depressed patients. The relationship between initial severity and antidepressant efficacy is attributable to decreased responsiveness to placebo among very severely depressed patients, rather than to increased responsiveness to medication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Kirsch

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045

 

[DoggerDan]

DoggerDan,

The best way I can describe rituals like cleaning is that you do it to the extreme, most times I do, like hardwood stairs, a three step process, no one does it like I do. There is a difference in an activity like that and say working in the milli-scary (pun intended) and being extremely focused in your job to prevent those in the field from getting killed. An OCD person in that situation would be ideal. Remember you have to have had this for a long time and the behavior patterns usually don't vary by much. Like I said awhile ago, I believe I have a mild case of it, that will intensify if I am under extreme stress. This has proven true for me time and again.

Another example would be when you are doing something you like you take it to the next level, what I like to call a "drill down mentality", here is a https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=422276&highlight=plasticity" I posted about awhile ago. I read the book I was interested in three or four times, each time paying more attention to concepts information I picked up on the previous read. For me at the time it seemed perfectly normal, but reflecting back on it I see how the subject of brain plasticity was becoming an obsession in itself and I backed off. Read a few of the posts and I am sure you will get a sense of what I mean. Don't get me wrong the subject is fascinating, but for most folks they are not partially consumed by it, as I was.

Does my explanation make sense to you ? Can you see how you don't have to totally fit the criteria of neurologists, psychologists in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV) to at least say that some of your thoughts and actions meet the criteria presented there for conditions such as OCD ?

Rhody...

Yes, Rhody, your explanation makes sense. It was quite good! Reading about OCD on Wikipedia tells me I don't have it. There's difference between doing something like checking tank pressures repeatedly because of the consequences of not doing so vs washing one's counter with bleach all the time, or simply washing it daily whether it needs it or not.

I think the key difference is "need." I know some people who do things whether the things need doing or not. To me, that's OCD. Similarly, they might also do things to excess, such as washing their hands like a surgeon before they eat dinner. That, too, is OCD.

As for the other things on the list, no, I don't have those, either. Pretty dull, huh?

 

[zoobyshoe]

I assumed she was paranoid scizophrenic. She thought lions were coming inside her house to eat her. She would only sleep on the living room couch so she would be prepared to escape the lion. I didn't know that she had OCD also. I always remember her fear of being in the house and fear of leaving the house, and hallucinations.

Here's the post you're referring to:

The most obvious way to tell whether you have an anxiety disorder is just to ask whether those situations cause you to experience anxiety.
I suspect that I might have OCPD and am almost certain that I have OCD. I'm not sure if you guys are talking about the same thing. For a possible example of each and the difference between them...

Just go with me on this - in many situations, there is a best way to do something: one set of correct answers to some problems, one set of most efficient ways to perform some procedure, and so on. It's also generally good to be orderly, prepared, resourceful, etc. and bad to be unorderly, unprepared, wasteful, etc. I believe all of this and try to act accordingly. It's certainly helpful in many situations, but it tends to leak into every area of my life, into stupid or insignificant situations, or otherwise get out of control.

For instance, I use pens regularly. I had to figure out several years ago which kind of pen was the best for me to use. I've been using that kind of pen ever since (the one pictured below). I don't like using other kinds of pens. I keep them well-stocked (I currently have 4 boxes of 12), and I always check to make sure that I have at least 2 or 3 with me when I go somewhere, in case one of them runs out of ink or doesn't work. This isn't so bad. But I also have to keep the cap of the pen lined up with the label on the pen, just as it is in the picture, because this is the 'best' position for the cap to be in; It's the most orderly.

I know that the position of the cap is really of absolutely no consequence, and I dont' experience significant anxiety if the cap is out of alignment or I have to use another pen or whatever. The thought just sticks in my head that I'm being unorderly, unprepared, etc., i.e., that I'm not being or doing the best that I can, which is unacceptable. And I'm this way about almost everything; There's a best slot for certain cards in my wallet, a best way to wash the dishes, I can't misspell words or make this list so short that it doesn't show how pervasive the thoughts are, I can't make it so long that people get bored with it, I have to confirm that 'pervasive' is the best word, that the reference of 'it' to 'the list' is clear, etc.

It's not very difficult to dismiss or resist the stupid ones, when I try. It's just usually easier to acquiesce. The ones that make sense are very difficult to resist, and I may not even want to resist them. If they are costly in time, effort, etc., I have to figure out the most efficient way to do them in order to avoid being wasteful.
It also bothers me when others don't live up to my standards, though I don't actually expect them to do so; I just can't help but notice. And I don't judge others negatively because of this; I'm only hard on myself. I think this may be OCPD.

What I am almost certain is OCD is very different. For example, I may be just sitting at the computer when the thought that there's a lion in the hallway about to break down the door and attack me just pops into my head; I may also get an image of the lion walking my way. I know that a lion actually being there is highly improbable and it's just my OCD, but arguing about this doesn't do any good. Depending on several factors, I may have to check to confirm that there is no lion or, if that is too scary, move a piece of furniture in front of the door or keep some kind of weapon or the phone next to me (to call 911). If the thought persists and I don't do these things, my body reacts as if the situation were real: I experience severe anxiety, perhaps escalating into a panic attack. I can't 'just control it' either. The presence of anxiety is huge factor in making a diagnosis of OCD. If you read cases of OCD sufferers, you'll see that it's nowhere near the normal experiences of anxiety or worry. It can become seriously disabling.

I have been effectively trapped in a small area for several hours due to an attack. The last time this happened, it was from the thought that there was an intruder in my mother's bedroom (the door was closed). I was stuck for two and half hours standing in a position where I could keep my eye on the doorknob (to see if they were coming out) and have a straight line to the front door, so that I could escape and run for help. The whole time, I was trying to argue myself out of the situation - I knew it was just my OCD. As hard as I tried, I couldn't even approach the door to check inside, make any noise at all, or let the doorknob out of sight for more than a few seconds. I couldn't leave the house for other reasons. I couldn't even sit down, because it would just take longer to get up and run for safety. I was prepared to run for my life the whole time. It only ended because my bother unexpectedly came home. I had already gone through all of my options and was resigned to the possibility of having to stand there for another 4 hours until my mother got home from work. And it would have gotten even worse when the sun went down. These attacks can make me unable to move, no matter how hard I try.
So it's no small thing, and I can't imagine how it could be helpful to experience anxiety or panic attacks in the absence of any real threat.

 

[Evo]

Here's the post you're referring to:

Yeah, that doesn't sound like OCD at all.

People with some severe forms of OCD fear that they might hurt someone or have hurt someone. They don't hallucinate or fear someone or something is hurting or killing them. She's paranoid disillusional, schizophrenic, whatever, but it's not OCD. Did she ever get the psychiatric help she needed?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Yeah, that doesn't sound like OCD at all.

People with some severe forms of OCD fear that they might hurt someone or have hurt someone. They don't hallucinate or fear someone or something is hurting or killing them. She's paranoid disillusional, schizophrenic, whatever, but it's not OCD. Did she ever get the psychiatric help she needed?

No, she wasn't hallucinating or delusional. The "lion in the hall" is just a fictional example. This thread, in which she participates, makes that more clear:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=83232

The actual thing that paralyzed her was the thought there was an intruder in the house. She says a couple times she knows there isn't one, that this is only her OCD, but it's the nature of the OCD that she can't stop reacting to it as if it were real.

In HRW's case, recall what I said about her father having attacked her mother with a hatchet. He snuck into the house and attacked her in bed. They were divorced and fortunately the attack was foiled by her stepfather who was there. Anyway, the "intruder in the house" is well explained as an insistent anxiety.

So, it might be Post-Traumatic Stress as opposed to OCD, but, yes, she was diagnosed with OCD and tried therapy a couple times.

 

[MarcoD]

Ah well, my experience with Effexor is that I will never be able to work in my field again. So, for what it's worth, just take that to heart.

 

[Monster92]

Many times I have anxiety attacks. I have never been treated for them as such. Although I am going to seek help at my uni as it is an opportunity to get help for a low price D:. I'm actually worried now. I haven't made a single friend at university yet, I've been here three days. My flat mates seems to have friends...:(

 

[Evo]

Many times I have anxiety attacks. I have never been treated for them as such. Although I am going to seek help at my uni as it is an opportunity to get help for a low price D:. I'm actually worried now. I haven't made a single friend at university yet, I've been here three days. My flat mates seems to have friends...:(

Don't worry if it's only been 3 days, even 3 weeks, people are settling in, trying to figure everything out, so they tend to be less focused on things around them. You will make friends.

 

[micromass]

Many times I have anxiety attacks. I have never been treated for them as such. Although I am going to seek help at my uni as it is an opportunity to get help for a low price D:. I'm actually worried now. I haven't made a single friend at university yet, I've been here three days. My flat mates seems to have friends...:(

Don't worry monster. I only made friends after a few months. Some people just make friends faster than other people.

 

[Evo]

Don't worry monster. I only made friends after a few months. Some people just make friends faster than other people.

Besides Monster, we're your friends. And we don't accept just anyone as a friend. So there.

 

[Galron]

You forgot Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) btw, should have a category of its own although technically it is a bi polar disorder and like Manic depression it seems to related to light sensitivity, with both disorders having more depressive phases in winter. I have a friend who suffers from it really badly, so... Worst case it can be completely debilitating.

I tend to suffer from a lot of physical ailments related to poor immune system, or should I say over active, I get asthma, eczema and sometimes hay fever (although thankfully rarely), which is linked to the only mental disorder I tend to get and that is depression, although I have pills for it, which are very effective and allow me to manage it well. Incidentally people on strong immunosuppressants are sometimes given anti depressants as your immune system seems intimately related to certain mental states, and a side effect, although not all that common, of strong suppressants is depression. It's hardly surprising then that depression causes a weakening of your immune system and I'm sure there is a correlation there, although I am speculating a tad.

 

[physics girl phd]

You forgot Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)

yeah.. I definitely get a touch of that. Nothing disabling, but definitely I just want to go somewhere, and take a nap... or turn bright lights on. This is a problem because my spouse likes it dim.

Come to think of it, he also has poor hearing (like all spouses). That might be a bad thing regarding my misophonia... which also seems to be partly a result of very good hearing.

 

[bohm2]

yeah.. I definitely get a touch of that. Nothing disabling, but definitely I just want to go somewhere, and take a nap... or turn bright lights on. This is a problem because my spouse likes it dim.

Come to think of it, he also has poor hearing (like all spouses). That might be a bad thing regarding my misophonia... which also seems to be partly a result of very good hearing.

I have major misophonia. It's hell.

 

[Galron]

yeah.. I definitely get a touch of that. Nothing disabling, but definitely I just want to go somewhere, and take a nap... or turn bright lights on. This is a problem because my spouse likes it dim.

Come to think of it, he also has poor hearing (like all spouses). That might be a bad thing regarding my misophonia... which also seems to be partly a result of very good hearing.

That's called selective hearing. A friend of mines dad went to the Dr who referred him to a hearing specialist and he said his years of working in high noise environments have probably damaged the range of hearing around the high pitched voice area. He said you're going to have to write that down as my wife is never going to believe it!

 

[cobalt124]

That's called selective hearing!

I thought selective hearing was a "teenager affliction"!

 

[cobalt124]

Reading this thread I seem to have some symptoms of all the (OCD, autism, aspbergers) disorders mentioned. I don't seem to be able to pick out individual behaviours as such, its like my everyday life growing up was (and is) ritualised and repetitive, so maybe I have "nurturally inherited" OCD/autism from my parents. Dunno. I also seem to be playing down my problems to a degree, which is what my family has been telling me and I didn't believe them. I wasn't completely happy with my diagnosis of OCD, as I was told I had the obsessive part, but not the compulsive part, and I felt I was being "fobbed off" with a false diagnosis. I was in no state to question my diagnosis in detail. I've just read about "Purely Obsessional OCD", and that seems to give a very accurate description of what I've been going through, so I'm going to look into that a bit more (the Wiki looks like it needs some work).

I've suspected since I was a teenager that I (and my Dad) have (had) some sort of autism and this used to be an issue. Now I would just like to know where I lie on the spectrum, curiosity more than anything.

 

[mathsciguy]

This seems like a fairly old thread but I guess it's better to post it here.

As silly as it seems, I just want to know what it's like to try treatment from a professional, or to confide yourself to a therapist, or to a psychiatrist? I have never been diagnosed but now I'm fairly certain I have some problems in my head that I probably had for a couple of years already.

I've always thought it's too much of a drag and the only reason I consider doing so is that maybe I'd get prescriptions for medicines. The thought of being counseled by a therapist is too irking to me though.

 

[Loren Booda]

In the U.S.,

A psychiatrist is a medical doctor (M.D.) who can diagnose and prescribe medicines, but nowadays usually does not provide counsel.

A psychologist is a Ph.D. who can diagnose and counsel (like with the popular cognitive behavioral therapy).

Other professionals for counseling include a psychiatric nurse and a psychiatric social worker.

A family doctor or sometimes a nurse practitioner can prescribe medications for mental illness.

 

[davenn]

I thought selective hearing was a "teenager affliction"!

naaaa it also applies to husbands of all ages when they really don't want to get involved with the wife's "honey do list"

Dave

 

[zoobyshoe]

This seems like a fairly old thread but I guess it's better to post it here.

As silly as it seems, I just want to know what it's like to try treatment from a professional, or to confide yourself to a therapist, or to a psychiatrist? I have never been diagnosed but now I'm fairly certain I have some problems in my head that I probably had for a couple of years already.

I've always thought it's too much of a drag and the only reason I consider doing so is that maybe I'd get prescriptions for medicines. The thought of being counseled by a therapist is too irking to me though.

As Loren says, you can get meds alone without any counseling. In fact, a psychiatrist will not even offer counselling. He or she will just ask a bunch of questions to arrive at an idea of what meds to try, and on follow up visits will ask what effect they had on your symptoms and about side effects you may have had. Talk therapy is a completely separate consideration that you have to set up with a different specialist if you want to try that. There are also group therapy sessions sometimes available they may or may not recommend.

 

[SpringCreek]

As has already been said, any family doctor can and will prescribe meds, usually for depression. But if you are serious about your treatment you might as well go to a specialist like a psychiatrist.

Don't be surprised if the psychiatrist suggests that you see a psychologist as well. They sometimes work in conjunction. In my case, I went to a psychologist first. After a thorough evaluation (eight hours of testing over two days), I was sent to a psychiatrist for a prescription and then began talk therapy with the psychologist. I never went back to the psychiatrist but I was treated by the psychologist for a few years.

You asked what it's like to confide yourself to a professional: At times it's scary, uncomfortable, maddening and embarrassing. At other times it's soothing, reassuring, encouraging and even thrilling (as in "Eureka!").

It takes courage and an open mind, but this is your life we're talking about. As I see it, any amount of effort expended in the pursuit of a good quality of life is worth it.

 

[Evo]

As Loren says, you can get meds alone without any counseling. In fact, a psychiatrist will not even offer counselling. He or she will just ask a bunch of questions to arrive at an idea of what meds to try, and on follow up visits will ask what effect they had on your symptoms and about side effects you may have had. Talk therapy is a completely separate consideration that you have to set up with a different specialist if you want to try that. There are also group therapy sessions sometimes available they may or may not recommend.

Actually there are psychiatrists that do individual counseling in addition to managing medicine. I would recommened a psychiatrist that does counseling over a psychologist, as psychiatrists have medical backgrounds and you have only one person to deal with. You may have to do some searching but it will be worth it, IMO.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Actually there are psychiatrists that do individual counseling in addition to managing medicine. I would recommened a psychiatrist that does counseling over a psychologist, as psychiatrists have medical backgrounds and you have only one person to deal with. You may have to do some searching but it will be worth it, IMO.

I had completely forgot there are psychiatrists with their own private practice who might also do counseling. I've usually gone to clinic shrinks, and the clinic will have a separate therapist.

 

[nitsuj]

As has already been said, any family doctor can and will prescribe meds, usually for depression. But if you are serious about your treatment you might as well go to a specialist like a psychiatrist.

I think it's crazy that the two are not mutually inclusive. Is it not that the purpose of the meds to "balance" the emotive side preparing the patient for the psychiatric treatment?

 

[Evo]

I think it's crazy that the two are not mutually inclusive. Is it not that the purpose of the meds to "balance" the emotive side preparing the patient for the psychiatric treatment?

If it's just a problem than can be treated with meds, meds are all you need.

 

[SpringCreek]

I think it's crazy that the two are not mutually inclusive. Is it not that the purpose of the meds to "balance" the emotive side preparing the patient for the psychiatric treatment?

Sort of. The meds are the psychiatric treatment. But sometimes they can be helpful in facilitating pyschotherapy, such as by balancing/stabilizing the patient and thereby stopping a downward spiral before things get tragic. Kind of like 'buying time' to give therapy a chance to work.

Also, sometimes meds can help a patient to open up more in therapy and to talk more freely. As the saying goes, progress in therapy is only being made when the patient is talking.

As Evo said, it might be that meds alone are sufficient. I would add that in other cases psychotherapy alone is sufficient. This is why it's so important to be properly evaluated by a specialist.

 

[nitsuj]

Ah i see, makes sense, thanks for the replies

 

[Loren Booda]

Talk therapy and medication can be twice as effective as either one alone.

 

[Evo]

Talk therapy and medication can be twice as effective as either one alone.

It really depends. I have panic attacks. There are no triggers. I might be watching someone making a sandwich, I might be painting my toenails, I might be having a pleasant dream then WHAM, panic attack. That is why I have ativan.

 

[cobalt124]

Talk therapy and medication can be twice as effective as either one alone.

(U.K.) - Other than the "twice" part it is my experience that both are needed. Talk alone never helped, and I refused medication alone. Saying that it all depends on other factors like therapist client relationship, and a willingness by the client to want to sort out the problem. From what I have read, which isn't much admittedly, both is seen as the best approach.