Does Accepting the Norm in Our Environment Lead to Ignorance?

[honestrosewater]

But when we attempt to implement our philosophies, we then get to observe what kind of results we get. If you say it is "right" to beat disobedient children, and when we observe the effect of that over time and it turns out to create angry adults, then we have information by which to develop a child-rearing philosophy.

Great example. What if a parent enjoys beating their child and doesn't care about your thoughts or observations?

EDIT- and you have the power to do something about it...

 

[Les Sleeth]

Doesn't that mean the common man is a 'better' philosopher than the armchair philosophers you talk of?

I don't want to seem condescending, but my observation is that the common man accepts family and social conditioning too much. The idea of being a philospher is to be reflective, so if you are raised to hate Catholics or blacks, or to believe you go to paradise if you blow up a plane full of people, that is something to reflect on rather than just blindly accept. And it goes a LOT deeper than that . . .

 

[Les Sleeth]

BTW didn't mean to offend anyone. Sorry if I did

Don't worry, you're cool.

What is the purpose of the mentors, then? Perhaps "force" is not the best word. Maybe influence, suggest, guide, mentor ;)
Do you think there is something wrong with trying to convince someone else to agree with you? Or would you have to make a distinction between *convincing* and *just setting forth an argument, plainly*? Where would you draw that line?

The chosen mentors are supposed to keep discussions on track, and make sure that information cited is accurate. In a forum debate, and I'd add especially at a science site, I think the ideal is to try to "make the case." That is, we support our assertions with evidence and logic. Sometimes people just state what they believe without supporting it, in which case you can ask them to "make their case."

Because who's to say what's good? Or because the one in power must draw the line for him/herself?

You raise an interesting point because almost all human interaction situations involve authority figures of one sort or another. We definitely need that to achieve group goals, avoid chaos, or prevent bullies/tyrants from taking over. I like the maxim of "right makes might." In other words, we appoint, elect or otherwise empower those who've demonstrated they will best serve the needs of the group.

What if a parent enjoys beating their child and doesn't care about your thoughts or observations?

One way to look at modern politics, which is essentially democratic, is that it is a way to manage power for the good of the people. One value most of us accept, for instance, is that the weak or innocent need to be protected. In a democracy, we as a group have enough power to decide we won't tolerate parents beating their children (if we find out about it of course). So in terms of stopping abusive parents, it doesn't matter if they care about my "thoughts or observations," we are going to stop them if we can, just like we will stop criminals from murdering or stealing. Again, this is a "right makes might" situation, not power abuse (ideally at least . . . people on a power trip in child protection services could, and have, abuse the power they've been entrusted with).

Keep in mind I am not suggesting that power per se is the problem; in this particular situation I'm talking about how people in power tend to believe their opinions, wishes, needs, etc., hold more weight simply because they are mighty. It is often manifested in the person through arbitrary, self-referenced or sell-serving decisions. Those in power who've used it for the benefit of humankind have been tremendously helpful to us all.

There is another kind of power abuse that happens which isn't exactly intentional. Consider Spain's conquest of areas of the Americas where religion was forced on the native populations. They just assumed they were right, and the indians needed religion. I am sure lots of the priests believed they were doing the "right" thing, when really they were stepping on an individual's right to decide such things for himself.

I don't think it is easy to avoid power abuse; the more power one has, the more difficult it seems to stay humble and respectful of others.

 

[Imparcticle]

I don't want to seem condescending, but my observation is that the common man accepts family and social conditioning too much. The idea of being a philospher is to be reflective, so if you are raised to hate Catholics or blacks, or to believe you go to paradise if you blow up a plane full of people, that is something to reflect on rather than just blindly accept. And it goes a LOT deeper than that . . .

It is something to refelct upon, indeed. But, from our perspective, these things are not exactly the social norm [anymore, for some]. So we would naturally want to refelct upon it. What if we considered the perspective of a person who was accustomed to these things, as though they were normal as the presence of clouds in the sky. We wouldn't refelect upon the presence of clouds in the sky.
One may argue that things like hatred will eventually be expelled from the majority of the social norm. I agree. My aforementioned scenario is only an example from one limited temporal frame of reference. No future/past events which may alter the norm should be considered.

 

[loseyourname]

What are you talking about? Of course we reflect on the presence of clouds in the sky. What do you think meteorologists do for a living? Question everything; it is the only way you will come to know anything.

 

[Les Sleeth]

What if we considered the perspective of a person who was accustomed to these things, as though they were normal as the presence of clouds in the sky. We wouldn't refelect upon the presence of clouds in the sky.

Actually, that is what I'm talking about. That which is the "norm" in one's environment is exactly what one should ponder. The unquestioning acceptance of what is normal in our environment is responsible for a lot of ignorance. The kid who accepts the norm of gang activity in his neighborhood, for instance, or even someone raised to be a certain religion. I know someone who is a very good person because of this (being raised to practice a certain religion). You might say it works for her, but I say the fact that she blindly accepts her religion involves at least some ignorance where she has never reflected on what she is doing.