Does doppler effect affect ENERGY of photon?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on whether the Doppler effect influences the energy of photons as perceived by an observer in motion relative to a photon source. Participants explore the implications of the Doppler effect on frequency, energy, and perception of color, examining both theoretical and experimental contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the perceived frequency of photons changes due to the observer's motion, suggesting that the human eye may perceive color based on the frequency of photons hitting it rather than their intrinsic frequency.
  • Another participant asserts that both energy and frequency of a photon depend on the observer's reference frame, indicating that there is no absolute frequency or energy for a photon.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that the energy of a photon is frame-dependent, and there is no measurable difference between photons that have undergone a Doppler shift and those that have not.
  • One participant proposes a scenario involving the photoelectric effect, questioning if an observer moving towards a source emitting photons below the threshold frequency could still observe the effect due to their motion.
  • Another participant confirms that it is indeed possible for an observer to experience a change in photon energy by moving at sufficient speed towards the source, even if the emitted photons are initially of a lower frequency.
  • A later reply states that the energy of a photon is not fundamentally different from other forms of energy, such as that of an automobile, in that it also depends on the observer's velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of photon energy and frequency, particularly regarding the effects of the Doppler shift and the observer's motion. There is no consensus on whether the intrinsic frequency of a photon is relevant to its perceived energy or color.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the observer's velocity and its relation to photon energy, as well as the implications of the photoelectric effect under varying conditions. The nuances of how frequency and energy are perceived in different frames of reference remain unresolved.

ARAVIND113122
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does doppler effect affect ENERGY of photon??

i have tried to make the question as clear as possible,but in the process,have made it a bit too long. i request you to be patient-
suppose a source is emitting a photon after equal intervals of time.an observer,who was initially at rest w.r.t the source,starts to move away from it.this would increase the time interval after which the photon reaches the observer.this means that the frequency of photons reaching the observer decreases,i.e,the apparent wavelength of light increases.

now,energy of a photon is given by e=h√.
suppose the photons emitted by the source have frequency corresponding to that of blue light.when the observer starts to move away,the light,according to the observer,would seem to have shifted towards the red end of the spectrum .

am i right in saying that although the actual frequency of each individual photon[which gives it its energy] remains the same,the frequency PERCEIVED by the human eye decreases?to be more specific,i want to know if the human eye perceives colour based on the INTRINSIC frequency of a photon,or the frequency with which successive photons hit the eye.
if the latter is true,then it wouldn't it mean that an EM wave of ANY frequency can be perceived as that of ANY OTHER frequency by the eye[despite having different energies according to their ACTUAL frequencies{given by E=h√}],depending on the motion of the source w.r.t the source?
or does doppler effect affect the initial frequency of the photon?if so,how?
is the answer a combination of different factors?if yes,how?
 
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Both the energy and frequency of a photon depend on the observer's reference frame. There is no such thing as "actual" (absolute) frequency or energy, for a photon.

When a photon enters your eye, the sensation of color that it produces depends on its frequency (or energy) in your reference frame.

Indeed, in principle if you accelerate to a high-enough velocity towards an oncoming photon, you can change it (from your point of view) from a green photon to an ultraviolet photon, and even further, to an X-ray or gamma-ray photon.
 


ARAVIND113122 said:
i have tried to make the question as clear as possible,but in the process,have made it a bit too long. i request you to be patient-
suppose a source is emitting a photon after equal intervals of time.an observer,who was initially at rest w.r.t the source,starts to move away from it.this would increase the time interval after which the photon reaches the observer.this means that the frequency of photons reaching the observer decreases,i.e,the apparent wavelength of light increases.

now,energy of a photon is given by e=h√.
suppose the photons emitted by the source have frequency corresponding to that of blue light.when the observer starts to move away,the light,according to the observer,would seem to have shifted towards the red end of the spectrum .

am i right in saying that although the actual frequency of each individual photon[which gives it its energy] remains the same,the frequency PERCEIVED by the human eye decreases?to be more specific,i want to know if the human eye perceives colour based on the INTRINSIC frequency of a photon,or the frequency with which successive photons hit the eye.

There is no such thing as the INTRINSIC frequency of a photon. The energy of the photon is frame dependent. The energy of a photon and thus its frequency as measured by someone at rest with respect to the source will be different than that it would be for some one moving with respect to the source. Put another way, there is no measurable difference between a "red" photon emit by a source at rest with respect to you and a "red" photon that has undergone Doppler shift.
 


okay.consider a case when someone is conducting an experiment to measure current produced by photo-electric effect.the threshold frequency is that of "blue" photons.but the source is emitting "green" photons.then,is it true that if he moves the object at a minimum required speed towards the source,he would observe photoelectric effect??
 


ARAVIND113122 said:
okay.consider a case when someone is conducting an experiment to measure current produced by photo-electric effect.the threshold frequency is that of "blue" photons.but the source is emitting "green" photons.then,is it true that if he moves the object at a minimum required speed towards the source,he would observe photoelectric effect??

Absolutely. The Cosmic Microwave Background itself becomes lethal x-ray/gamma radiation if you accelerate to a high enough velocity.
 


There's nothing magical about photons. The energy of a photon depends on the observer's velocity. The energy of an automobile depends on the observer's velocity.
 


Thank you very much!
 

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