Does Lorentz invariance imply Einstein's synchronization convention?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between Lorentz invariance and Einstein's clock synchronization convention within the framework of special relativity (SR). Participants explore the implications of Lorentz transformations, the nature of conformal transformations, and the operational aspects of clock synchronization in inertial frames.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Lorentz transformation implies that Einstein's clock synchronization applies to clocks at rest in Lorentz frames, due to the invariant speed of light.
  • Others introduce the idea that the conformal symmetry group is larger than the Lorentz group, suggesting that transformations can preserve light cones without adhering strictly to Lorentz invariance.
  • A participant questions whether the group of transformations that leave the Minkowski metric invariant is indeed larger than the Lorentz/Poincare group.
  • It is noted that while Lorentz transformations preserve both angles and lengths, conformal transformations maintain angles but not lengths, raising questions about their compatibility with clock synchronization.
  • Some argue that clock synchronization is a separate issue from the preservation of lengths in transformations, indicating a distinction between the two concepts.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of using different transformation methods, such as Voigt transformations, which may not maintain the same clock rates as Lorentz transformations.
  • Participants express uncertainty about how conformal transformations relate to Lorentz transformations, particularly regarding the notion of simultaneity and clock rates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between Lorentz invariance and Einstein's synchronization convention. Multiple competing views are presented, particularly regarding the implications of conformal transformations and their compatibility with the principles of special relativity.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying interpretations of the implications of different transformation groups, the operational definitions of simultaneity, and the specific conditions under which different synchronization methods may apply.

  • #31
PeroK said:
What does that achieve? That's hardly worth a paper.
I believe it simply shows that in the aforementioned condition Einstein's synchronization convention is consistent (i.e. 'simultaneous' according it defines actually an 'equivalence class').
 
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  • #32
cianfa72 said:
I believe it simply shows that in the aforementioned condition Einstein's synchronization convention is consistent (i.e. 'simultaneous' according it defines actually an 'equivalence class of events').
Well, if Weyl proved that in 1923, then it's a waste of time now.

In any case, it's clear if you read the paper that they believe they have proved way more than that.
 
  • #33
PeroK said:
In any case, it's clear if you read the paper that they believe they have proved way more than that.
In MINUL pag 10 they claim to remove an assumption (namely ##z=0##) Weyl employed to show that Einstein's synchronization convention is consistent. In section 4 they show that from ##2c \Rightarrow (z=0)##. Hence since from ##L/c## follows ##2c## then they give a proof of ##L/c \Rightarrow 1c## (note that the latter is actually a two folded statement).
 
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