Does Science Assume Naturalism?

  • Thread starter Thrilho
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Science
In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of naturalism and its role in science. Naturalism is the belief that knowledge is best attained through scientific methods, rather than personal revelation or religious tradition. It is divided into two forms: metaphysical naturalism, which states that everything that exists is part of nature, and methodological naturalism, which is a useful framework for science but not essential. The conversation also explores the idea of introducing supernatural entities into the scientific equation and how it would affect the ability to gain knowledge. Ultimately, it is concluded that the supernatural would only add more variables and possibilities, making it difficult to determine the true cause of events.

Does Science Assume Naturalism?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • No

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 1 11.1%

  • Total voters
    9
  • #1
Thrilho
7
0
Does it and should it?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
What do you mean by naturalism?
 
  • #3
if you mean does it assume that everything has a naural cause. Then yes it does. And yes it should because you cannot test (by definition) something supernatural.

if you insert the possibility of the supernatural, it would always give you two possibilities at the end. one of which you could never disprove. You would therefore never gain any knowledge.
 
  • #4
arildno said:
What do you mean by naturalism?


That is what I am defining as Naturalism.

While you're at the website give this a read, tis very interesting:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #5
Thrilho said:
Does it and should it?

No. Empiricism is the assumption of science.
Should it? The fewer assumptions the better.
 
  • #6
Joe this is from naturalism.org

basically this is the definition of that Thrilho is giving for naturalism.

"What constitutes knowledge: Naturalism as a worldview is based on the premise that knowledge about what exists and about how things work is best achieved through the sciences, not personal revelation or religious tradition."

From the above its pretty obvious that science assumes that science is the best method for gaining knowledge.
 
  • #7
xxChrisxx said:
"What constitutes knowledge: Naturalism as a worldview is based on the premise that knowledge about what exists and about how things work is best achieved through the sciences, not personal revelation or religious tradition."

Well that's unfortunate.

In philosophy, one can distinguish between the epistemological, having to do with knowledge, and the ontological, having to do with existence. Naturalism is actually not limited to a theory of knowledge.

The notion that everything that there is, is part of nature, is 'metaphysical naturalism'. The notion that the way to attain knowledge is through observation of the natural world is 'methodological naturalism'.

Science doesn't assume there are no 'supernatural' events or causes, further, it can function without a naturalist epistemology, strictly on the level of empirical observation.
Methodological naturalism, is simply a useful framework.

So, no, science does not even need naturalism.
 
  • #8
Assumes methodological naturalism? Yes. Assumes philosophical naturalism? No.

Naturally, methodological naturalism is a necessary assumption for science.
 
  • #9
Moridin said:
Naturally, methodological naturalism is a necessary assumption for science.

Its no a necessary assumption, its just one most scientists make.

One can be a a radical empiricist with all sorts of weird assumptions.
 
  • #10
JoeDawg said:
Its no a necessary assumption, its just one most scientists make.

One can be a a radical empiricist with all sorts of weird assumptions.

Not at all, because the moment you enter any kind of supernatural entity into the equation everything falls apart, because you cannot, almost by definition, find a way to hold supernatural entities constant (if it was possible, it wouldn't, by definition, be supernatural).
 
  • #11
Moridin said:
Not at all, because the moment you enter any kind of supernatural entity into the equation everything falls apart, because you cannot, almost by definition, find a way to hold supernatural entities constant (if it was possible, it wouldn't, by definition, be supernatural).

People have been trying to figure out the intentions and pleasures of gods for thousands of years. They use observation all the time. Notions like 'god's will', and karma... and divine retribution are all about observing and then fitting the observation into a supernatural framework.

So, no, science doesn't need naturalism. Everything that happens could simply be the will of giant space turtle. The fact that we observe consistency in our observations, could simply be because said space turtle is hung over, and hasn't bothered to make any changes recently. Tomorrow, he could change it all.

Methodological naturalism is useful for science, but not essential.
 
  • #12
JoeDawg said:
People have been trying to figure out the intentions and pleasures of gods for thousands of years. They use observation all the time. Notions like 'god's will', and karma... and divine retribution are all about observing and then fitting the observation into a supernatural framework.

So, no, science doesn't need naturalism. Everything that happens could simply be the will of giant space turtle. The fact that we observe consistency in our observations, could simply be because said space turtle is hung over, and hasn't bothered to make any changes recently. Tomorrow, he could change it all.

Methodological naturalism is useful for science, but not essential.

If a magical pixie can both 1) change your instruments and 2) the facts of reality arbitrarily, how is science possible?
 
  • #13
Moridin said:
If a magical pixie can both 1) change your instruments and 2) the facts of reality arbitrarily, how is science possible?

The trick there would be figuring the motivations of said mp, by looking at the evidence of its past actions. Also figuring out how to appease said mp would be useful. Its clear that some things in the universe are consistent, so the mp is not changing things randomly 'all the time'. Is he malicious, insane, confused, or just bored? 'Magical' is really just a way of saying 'beyond understanding', but with science one could find patterns in the mp's behaviour... if such patterns exist, and while they exist. Even if the mp itself is magical and whimsical, science could at least track the changes as they come.

Its clearly not a well supported idea, given current evidence, nor a particularly attractive one. IMO. But anything that interacts with the 'seemingly' natural world would be something science could examine, at least indirectly.

Not a good assumption of course, if you haven't seen any pixies of late.
 
  • #14
Its clearly not a well supported idea, given current evidence, nor a particularly attractive one. IMO. But anything that interacts with the 'seemingly' natural world would be something science could examine, at least indirectly.

Thats statement is utterly idiotic. Inserting the supernatural pixie into the equation gives you TWO VARIABLES. you can only measure so much stuff, therefore you cannot say which one is changing.

Even if you keep conditions the same, it could be the property of nature that is changing and the pixie is doing nothing. It could be that the property of nature doesn't change but the pixie is having a jolly good laugh. It could be both are changing. It could be the pixie isn't diddling with you experiement at all, but has changed your bottle of Evian to Absinthe.

Inserting the supernatural makes ANY explination a possibility. So while this may be true, it teaching us NOTHING NEW. Apart from, oh that pixie. she's such a joker, i hope she doesn't take a peep at me in the shower.

Not a good assumption of course, if you haven't seen any pixies of late.

You are so right, I've not seen ANYthing supernatural... EVER! So let's say the the goal of 'good' science 'is to make 'good' assumptions. As you have quite correctly shown, inseting the supernatural is 'NOT a good assumption'.

Therefore GOOD science will always assume that the supernatural pixies/gods/FSM will take no part in nature. Which kind of answers the thread in contrary to all your previous statements.

Now this is one of my assumptions about this thread. I was assuming that the OP wants to know about good science, not crazy arsed religious pseudoscience.
 
  • #15
Indeed, the main issue here is that you are unable to hold MP constant.
 

1. What is naturalism in science?

Naturalism in science is the philosophical belief that all phenomena can be explained by natural causes and laws, without the need for supernatural or divine intervention.

2. Does science assume naturalism?

In general, yes, science does assume naturalism. This means that scientists approach their research with the assumption that all phenomena can be explained through natural causes and laws. However, this assumption is not a strict rule and can be challenged if there is evidence to support supernatural or divine intervention.

3. What is the difference between methodological and ontological naturalism?

Methodological naturalism is a scientific approach that assumes naturalism for the purpose of conducting research. Ontological naturalism, on the other hand, is a philosophical belief that nature is all that exists and there is no supernatural or divine reality. While science may use methodological naturalism, it does not necessarily subscribe to ontological naturalism.

4. Can science accommodate supernatural or divine explanations?

While science primarily focuses on natural explanations, it is not completely closed off to supernatural or divine explanations. If there is sufficient evidence to support these explanations, they can be considered by the scientific community. However, they must be evaluated using the same rigorous and empirical methods as natural explanations.

5. How does naturalism impact the scientific method?

Naturalism shapes the scientific method by guiding the types of questions that scientists ask and the methods they use to seek answers. It also encourages the use of empirical evidence and the rejection of supernatural or divine intervention as explanations for natural phenomena. However, the scientific method is flexible and can adapt to new evidence and ideas, including those that challenge naturalism.

Similar threads

  • General Discussion
Replies
12
Views
1K
  • General Discussion
Replies
10
Views
881
Replies
4
Views
926
  • General Discussion
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • General Discussion
Replies
30
Views
2K
  • General Discussion
Replies
7
Views
1K
Replies
95
Views
5K
Replies
29
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
648
Back
Top