Does the curvature of SpaceTime Disprove gravity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between gravity and the curvature of spacetime as described by Einstein's General Relativity, particularly in contrast to Newton's laws of gravity. Participants explore the implications of these theories on the nature of gravity, questioning whether gravity is a fundamental force or an effect of spacetime geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Debate/contested, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how Einstein's General Relativity reconciles with Newton's laws, particularly regarding the speed of gravitons and the nature of gravity.
  • Another participant suggests that in Newton's theory, gravitational interactions were instantaneous, which contradicts relativity, leading to the interpretation that gravity might be a "fake" force in Einstein's framework.
  • There is a question about how both Newtonian gravity and General Relativity can be accepted simultaneously, indicating a perceived inconsistency in understanding these theories.
  • A reference to another thread is made, suggesting that similar discussions have occurred previously, though the relevance of that thread is not elaborated upon.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to have differing views on the nature of gravity as described by Newton and Einstein, with some accepting the geometric interpretation of gravity while others find it confusing or contradictory.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of reconciling classical and modern theories of gravity, with participants expressing uncertainty about the implications of these theories on the understanding of gravity itself.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in the philosophical implications of gravitational theories, students of physics exploring the transition from Newtonian to relativistic frameworks, and those curious about the conceptual challenges in understanding gravity.

TheIsland24
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Obviously not. But I am confused on this. Newtons laws of gravity did not fit with Einsteins Relativity theories because Newton said that a change in matter of an object would cause a shift to be felt by others in the universe because of the change in gravity. This would mean that the movement/ change of the gravitons would be faster than the speed of light, which isn't possible in general relativity because light is standard/constant. In order to incorporate gravity into his theory, Einstein eventually created General Relativity which says that SpaceTime is curved. Objects attempting to move in straight lines in space follow this curvature. Was Einstein saying that this curvature creates the illusion of gravity, and thus gravity did not really exist? How did saying that Space and Time were curved solve the problem of gravity in terms of Relativity that I already mentioned? The only way I can see this problem being solved is if Einstein was saying gravity didnt actually exist ( it was just objects trying to follow straight lines but actually following curved lines). I know this isn't true because curved space and time is accepted today, as well as gravity. Could someone explain PLEASE!?
 
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You are essentially correct.

If you want to think of Newton's theory of gravitation in terms of gravitons, then yes these gravitons did travel faster than the speed of light. In fact, they traveled infinitely fast because the gravitational interaction between bodies was propagated instantaneously in Newton's theory. As you say, instant transfer of information is forbidden in relativity, so this is a bit of a problem.

Einstein's theory of GR, in a sense, does say that gravity is a "fake" force. Einstein was saying that what we perceive as gravity as actually simply the product of mass warping space time and objects following their natural trajectories. It essentially replaces a traditional force (carrier particle, in the sense of the standard model) model of the gravitational interaction with a completely geometric model of gravity.
 
Thank you very much. How are both of these ideas accepted today? Obviously gravity is accepted as a force, but General Relativity is also accepted as a theory...doesnt add up in my mind.
 
See post #4 here. That thread was near the top of the first page when you created this one, so I'm surprised you didn't see it.
 

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