Does the Photon Play a Crucial Role in Quantum Mechanics?

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    Photon Quantum phyics
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the necessity and role of photons in quantum mechanics, particularly in the context of electromagnetic interactions. Participants explore whether photons are essential, the evidence for their existence, and the implications of their properties in quantum theory.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the necessity of photons, asking if particles could interact without them.
  • Others assert that photons are essential mediators of electromagnetic force and are integral to the quantum theory of light.
  • There is a discussion about the experimental evidence for photons, with references to detecting light as discrete particles.
  • Some participants express confusion over the concept of "proper time" for photons, suggesting that it does not negate their existence.
  • A hypothetical scenario is proposed about the existence of photons if only one electron were present, leading to differing opinions on the relevance of such a question.
  • Participants discuss the distinction between "discrete particles" and "discrete interactions," with some suggesting that photons may merely represent interactions rather than being "real" particles.
  • There is mention of the role of photons in quantum electrodynamics and the lack of alternatives to this framework.
  • Some participants argue that the photon is a useful concept for maintaining causality and locality in interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the necessity of photons, with multiple competing views remaining. Some assert their essential role in quantum mechanics, while others question their status as fundamental entities.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of photons and their role in quantum theory, with some participants expressing uncertainty about the implications of hypothetical scenarios.

  • #61
neobaud said:
that massless particles don't experience time
Does an electron? After all, an electron that is 1000 years old acts identically to one that was just created.

This seems to be a) philosophical and not something subject to test via measurement and b) a set of properties unnecessary for understanding how matter behaves. Does an inclined plane experience time? How do you know, and what difference does it make?
 
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  • #62
neobaud said:
Isn't spacetime an emergent property of the universe?
What does this even mean?

neobaud said:
I maintain that massless particles don't experience time. They are incapable of having internal clocks.
If by this you mean that the concepts of "experienced time" and "internal clocks" are not even well-defined for massless particles, that is correct. I covered this way back in post #3. However, that does not justify the further claims you made.

neobaud said:
I don't know why you would argue this point.
I am not. I am simply pointing out, as above, that the correct point that I am not arguing does not justify the further claims you made that I did argue.
 
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  • #64
After moderator review, the thread will remain closed.
 
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  • #65
I know the tread is closed, but ages ago, I found an excellent paper that can be understood after a first course in QM (Susskind would be enough with persistence) that explains why a photon must exist. It was historically first worked out by Dirac. The issue is spontaneous emission. Einstein explained it in one of his famous papers that high school students these days learn about. But Dirac used the principles of QM to explain those rules. It was the first 'taste' of Quantum Field Theory, the foundation of the modern standard model. Without further ado:

https://www.physics.usu.edu/torre/QFT/Lectures/QFT_text.pdf

Thanks
Bill
 
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