Double integral in Rectangular coordinates for anything circular

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating a double integral in rectangular coordinates related to the volume of a cone defined by the equation \( z = A \sqrt{x^2 + y^2} \). Participants explore various methods of integration, including polar coordinates and trigonometric substitutions, while debating the correct formulation of the integral and the volume of the cone.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the double integral \( \iint A \sqrt{x^2 + y^2} \, dy \, dx \) and expresses difficulty in evaluating it, mentioning attempts at polar coordinate substitution.
  • Another participant suggests using Clairaut's theorem to change the order of integration but does not provide details on the outcome.
  • A participant expresses a preference to avoid cylindrical and spherical coordinate systems, while another claims that using spherical coordinates simplifies the problem.
  • There is a correction regarding the equation of the cone, with a participant clarifying that the correct representation is \( z^2 = A^2(x^2 + y^2) \) rather than \( z = A \sqrt{x^2 + y^2} \).
  • One participant proposes a trigonometric substitution \( y = x \tan(\theta) \) to facilitate the integration process, while another argues that the original double integral is not suitable for finding the volume of the cone.
  • There is a discussion about the volume of the cone, with a participant asserting that the formula for the volume is \( \frac{1}{3} \pi r^2 h \), correcting a previous claim about the volume being \( \frac{2}{3} \pi h \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate methods for evaluating the integral and the correct formulation of the volume of the cone. No consensus is reached on the best approach or the validity of the initial integral setup.

Contextual Notes

Participants note various assumptions and conditions regarding the integration methods and the geometric interpretation of the cone, but these remain unresolved within the discussion.

PaultheRiemann
This is the equation for the cone
A \sqrt{x^2 + y^2}

The double integral

\iint A \sqrt{x^2 + y^2} \space dy \space dx \space \space \space\text {From x= -1 to 1 and y=} -\sqrt{1-x^2} \space to \space \sqrt{1-x^2}

\text{ is very difficult to evaluate. I've tried polar coordinate substitution. However, I can't seem to get} /space 2/3 \pi z \space \text{where z is the height of cone and 1 is the radius of the cone}
 
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\text{here's what happens when I use CLAIRAUT theorem to change the order of the pertaining triple integral}

ImageUploadedByPhysics Forums1420297046.972458.jpg
 
I'm also trying my best not to use cylindrical and spherical coordinate systems.
 
ImageUploadedByPhysics Forums1420298926.716545.jpg
easy when spherical coordinates are used
 
You are not getting any responses, perhaps because no one can understand what you are saying.
Put your Latex between double dollar signs.
PaultheRiemann said:
This is the equation for the cone
$$A \sqrt{x^2 + y^2}$$
No, it isn't, in fact, it is not even an equation! I assume you meant $$z= A\sqrt{x^2+ y^2}$$ but even that is only one side of the cone- the entire cone is $$z^2= A^2(x^2+ y^2)$$

The double integral

$$\iint A \sqrt{x^2 + y^2} \space dy \space dx \space \space \space$$$$\text {From x= -1 to 1 and y=} -\sqrt{1-x^2} \space to \space \sqrt{1-x^2}$$

\text{ is very difficult to evaluate. I've tried polar coordinate substitution. However, I can't seem to get} /space 2/3 \pi z \space \text{where z is the height of cone and 1 is the radius of the cone}
To integrate $\int_{x= -1}^1\int_{y= {-\sqrt{1- x^2}}^\sqrt{1- x^2} A\sqrt{x^2+ y^2}dy dx$$
I would first use trig identity $$tan^2(\theta)+ 1= sec^2(\theta)$$ and make the substitution $$y= xtan(\theta)$$. Then $$\sqrt{x^2+ y^2}= \sqrt{x^2+ x^2 tan(\theta)}= x sec(\theta)$$. Also $$dy= sec^2(\theta)d\theta$$
PaultheRiemann said:
This is the equation for the cone
A \sqrt{x^2 + y^2}

The double integral

\iint A \sqrt{x^2 + y^2} \space dy \space dx \space \space \space\text {From x= -1 to 1 and y=} -\sqrt{1-x^2} \space to \space \sqrt{1-x^2}

\text{ is very difficult to evaluate. I've tried polar coordinate substitution. However, I can't seem to get} /space 2/3 \pi z \space \text{where z is the height of cone and 1 is the radius of the cone}
No, it is not that difficult. The substitution $$y= x tan(\theta)$$ works nicely.

But I don't see why you are doing that. if you want to find the volume of a cone, with height h, then the double integral you are using isn't going to do it. Instead, note that, for any z, a cross section is a disk with center (0, 0, z) and radius $$r= \sqrt{x^2+ y^2}= \frac{z}{A}$$ so area $$\pi \frac{z^2}{A^2}$$. Taking the "thickness" to be dz, the volume of such disk is $$\pi \frac{z^2}{A^2}dz$$. The entire cone, thought of as the sum of such disks is $$\frac{\pi}{A^2}\int_0^h z^2 dz$$. In this particular cone, with $$z= A\sqrt{x^2+ y^2}$$ a cone with height h will have base radius $$\frac{h}{A}$$.

That will NOT give "$$\frac{2}{3}\pi h$$" because that is NOT the formula for volume of a cone. The volume of a cone, of height h and base radius R, is $$\frac{1}{3}\pi r^2h$$- 1/3, not 2/3.
 
Thanks halls
 

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