Driving a Car on a Straight Road: Analyzing Forces

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    Car Forces
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around analyzing the forces acting on a car driving on a straight road, particularly focusing on engine torque, friction, and air resistance. Participants explore the relationships between these forces during different states of motion, including when the car is at rest and when it is accelerating.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the total force acting on the car can be expressed as F=engine_torque-air_resistance-rolling_friction-static_friction, questioning the role of static friction in causing movement.
  • Another participant suggests that if the engine torque on the front wheels is less than or equal to static friction, the total force should account for rolling friction in the rear wheels, while if it exceeds static friction, kinetic friction should be considered.
  • There is a query about the minimum engine torque required to start the car moving from rest, with suggestions that it should equal the force needed to overcome rolling resistance and friction.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the conditions at zero speed, debating whether there is any resistance present and how it affects the calculation of total force.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the distinction between static and kinetic friction, particularly when the wheels begin to spin.
  • One participant emphasizes the need to account for both front and rear wheels having rolling resistance when the car is in motion.
  • There is a request for a clear answer regarding the forces acting on the car at different speeds and the minimum engine torque required to initiate movement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the role of static versus kinetic friction, the presence of resistance at zero speed, and the calculation of total force. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached consensus on the definitions and roles of different types of friction, particularly in relation to the forces acting on the car at rest versus in motion. There are also unresolved questions about the minimum torque required to initiate movement and the nature of resistance at zero speed.

impel123
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I am building a project,where you drive a car on a straight road.

The car has 3 kinds of forces:
1)Torque of engine in the wheels
2)Friction on the tyres
3)Force due to air resistance

If a car accelerating,and is front wheel drive,then the 2 front wheels have these forces:

<-------(Engine Torque)-------O------(Static friction)-------------->

and the rear wheels

<-------(Rolling friction)-------O


so car has these forces:

<---(Engine torque,rolling friction,air resistance force)--(CAR)--(Static friction force)---->

So,Whats the total force?

F=engine_torque-air_resistance-rolling_friction-static_friction ?

I read that static friction causes movement...so static friction is equal to engine torque?I am comfused.
 
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impel123 said:
I am building a project,where you drive a car on a straight road.

The car has 3 kinds of forces:
1)Torque of engine in the wheels
2)Friction on the tyres
3)Force due to air resistance

If a car accelerating,and is front wheel drive,then the 2 front wheels have these forces:

<-------(Engine Torque)-------O------(Static friction)-------------->

and the rear wheels

<-------(Rolling friction)-------O


so car has these forces:

<---(Engine torque,rolling friction,air resistance force)--(CAR)--(Static friction force)---->

So,Whats the total force?

F=engine_torque-air_resistance-rolling_friction-static_friction ?

I read that static friction causes movement...so static friction is equal to engine torque?I am comfused.

I think it would make the problem more clear if you think of engine torque and static friction being in the same direction.

<---(Engine torque ~ Static friction force)--(CAR)--(rolling friction, air resistance)---->
 
so,if engine torque on front wheels<=static friction then

F_total=Engine_torque-air_resistance-rolling_friction_in_rear_wheels

else ,if engine torque on front wheels>static friction then

F_total=Kinetik_friction_force_in_front_wheels-air_resistance-rolling_friction_in_rear_wheels


When car speed=0,what is the minimum engine torque to start the car to move?

F_minumum=rolling_resistance_rear_wheels+x
where x is friction resistance on the front wheels.

What is the x?rolling friction again?
 
impel123 said:
so,if engine torque on front wheels<=static friction then

F_total=Engine_torque-air_resistance-rolling_friction_in_rear_wheels
It might also be a good idea to stop referring to the force as static friction.
Although technically correct, it's a bit confusing, as evidenced by your following statement:
else ,if engine torque on front wheels>static friction then
If the torque exceeds the static friction then you no longer have static friction, ie. your wheels will spin and you will have kinetic friction.
F_total=Kinetik_friction_force_in_front_wheels-air_resistance-rolling_friction_in_rear_wheels

When car speed=0,what is the minimum engine torque to start the car to move?
It would be equal to the force required to move the car.
F_minumum=rolling_resistance_rear_wheels+x
where x is friction resistance on the front wheels.

What is the x?rolling friction again?
Rolling friction is the resistance of a wheel being rolled over a surface.
 
I can't understand what is the minimun engine torque required to move the car,if initialy car speed=0..there is no resistance?

when car speed is >0 then the rear wheels have rolling friction,and the front wheels static friction so

if speed>0 then
Ftotal=Engine_torque-air_resistance-rolling_friction_rear_wheels

else is speed =0 then
Ftotal=Engine_torque

Is this right?
 
impel123 said:
I can't understand what is the minimun engine torque required to move the car,if initialy car speed=0..there is no resistance?
There is always resistance.
when car speed is >0 then the rear wheels have rolling friction,and the front wheels static friction so
The front wheels also have rolling friction.
if speed>0 then
Ftotal=Engine_torque-air_resistance-rolling_friction_rear_wheels
Basically. Yes.
else is speed =0 then
Ftotal=Engine_torque

Is this right?
I do not understand the question.
 
then,if and front wheels and rear wheels have rolling resistance,when speed>0

Ftotal=Engine_torque-air_resistance-front_wheels_rolling_resistance-rear_wheels_rolling_resistance


if speed=0,which is the minimum engine torque required to start the car to move?

Why don't you answer my questions?

I need to know which are the forces in the car when speed>0 and which is the minimun
engine torque required to move the car if speed=0.

There are 4 kinds of forces:
1)engine torque
2)rear_wheels rolling resistance
3)front wheels rolling resistance
4)air resistance

Give me an answer please...
 

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