Effective potential energy minimum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of effective potential energy in the context of particle motion, specifically addressing the conditions under which a particle exhibits stable circular orbits. Participants explore the implications of the effective potential's minimum and its relationship to orbital shapes, such as circular versus elliptical orbits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines effective potential energy and questions why a minimum leads to stable circular orbits instead of elliptical ones.
  • Another participant suggests that near a minimum, the effective potential behaves like a harmonic oscillator, allowing for circular orbits as a particular solution.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the conditions under which the effective potential leads to stable orbits, indicating a need for further understanding.
  • Another participant elaborates on the mathematical conditions for local extrema, discussing the role of first and second derivatives in determining the nature of critical points.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the conditions for stable orbits or the implications of the effective potential's minimum. There are differing views on the nature of orbits and the mathematical criteria for determining stability.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the discussion involves assumptions about the differentiability of functions and the behavior of derivatives at critical points, which may not be universally applicable in all scenarios.

LagrangeEuler
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Effective potential energy is defined by
[tex]U^*(\rho)=\frac{L^2}{2m\rho^2}+U(\rho)[/tex]
in many problems I found that particle will have stable circular orbit if [tex]U^*(\rho)[/tex] has minimum.

1. Why is that a case? Why circle? Why not ellipse for example?

2. Is this condition equivalent with
[tex]\frac{f'(\rho)}{f(\rho)}+\frac{3}{\rho}>0[/tex]?
 
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Around a minimum ##\rho_0## you (very often) have
$$U(\rho)=U_0(\rho_0)+\frac{m \omega^2}{2}$$
with ##m \omega^2=U''(\rho)>0##. This implies that if the particle is close to the minimum ##\rho_0##, it behaves as in a harmonic-oscillator potential. A particular solution is of course ##\rho(t)=\rho_0=\text{const}##. Then you have a circular orbit. Otherwise the particle oscillates around such an orbit.
 
And when this is not the case? I am really trying to understand this but I have difficulties.
 
What do you mean? If you have a twice continuously differentiable function in some interval, the necessary condition for a (local) extremum is that its first derivative vanishes at the corresponding point. To have a minimum, it's sufficient (but not necessary) that the 2nd derivative is positive.

The criterion fails, if the function's 2nd derivative is also 0 at this point. Then it's either a saddle point or an extremum, depending on whether the first non-vanishing derivative is odd or even, respectively.

E.g. the function ##f(x)=x^3## has ##f'(x)=3 x^2##, ##f''(x)=6x##, ##f'''(x)=6##. The 1st derivative vanishes at ##x=0## and there also ##f''(0)=0## but ##f'''(0) \neq 0##. Obviously the graph of the function has a saddle-point, i.e., a tangent with vanishing slope but no extremum in ##x=0##.

In the same way, you find that ##f(x)=x^4## has a tangent of vanishing slope at ##x=0## with ##f''(0)=0## but also ##f'''(0)=0## and ##f^{(4)}(0)=24>0##, i.e., a minimum at ##x=0##.
 

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