Electric Rays & Eels: Electricity Storage & Conversion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the electricity storage and conversion mechanisms in electric rays and eels, exploring whether their biological systems resemble batteries or capacitors, and the potential for artificial replication of these systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the electricity storage in electric rays and eels is more akin to batteries or capacitors, or if it is merely an energy conversion method involving muscle power.
  • Another participant references a Wikipedia article for additional details on electric eels.
  • A participant argues that electric fish organs do not resemble classical batteries, which rely on chemical reactions, while these organs operate on charge release.
  • There is speculation about the feasibility of creating artificial systems similar to electric organs, highlighting their energy and power density without the use of rare metals.
  • Calculations are presented comparing the power density of electric organs to that of Ni-MH batteries, noting the weight and size requirements for similar energy density.
  • A participant mentions that some fish utilize these organs for communication.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the comparison between electric fish organs and traditional batteries, with no consensus reached on the nature of electricity storage or conversion in these organisms.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the weight and proportion of electric organs in relation to the body mass of the fish, as well as the specific mechanisms of charge release.

Stanley514
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Electric rays and eels are able to produce lot of electricity.
I wasn`t able to understand if their way to store electricity
is closer to battery or capacitor or neither?
Could it be regarded as electric energy storage similar to battery or
capacitor or this is just energy conversion method in which power of
muscles is used to produce charge separation?
 
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I believe it is described in enough detail here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I still do not see a similarity to classical battery because battery depends on reaction of reducer with oxidizer but electric fish organs on some ``charge release``.
Is it possible to create something artificial similar to electric organs?They seem to have excelent energy and power density and no rare metals are involved?
 
Stanley514 said:
I still do not see a similarity to classical battery because battery depends on reaction of reducer with oxidizer but electric fish organs on some ``charge release``.
Is it possible to create something artificial similar to electric organs?They seem to have excelent energy and power density and no rare metals are involved?

70 W·h/kg energy density of a Ni-MH battery

500V*1A (max recorded from an electric eel) = 500W... 0.14 W*h
So for the organ to have similar power density as a Ni-MH it would need to weigh 0.002kg... a fish capable of producing that much power needs to be about 1 meter long and about 10-20kg

I cannot find how much the organ weighs in such a fish (or even the percent of its body mass) but it would need to be around 0.02% of its body mass to have the same energy density as Ni-MH
 
Some more details here, if you have not seen it:

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/riis/electriceel3.htm"

Those organs generating the electricity make up a very large part of the eel.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Some fish use this kind of organs for communication.
 

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