Electronic transition in organic compounds

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the types of π → π* transitions in organic compounds, specifically focusing on the K-band, B-band, and E-band transitions in aromatic systems like benzene and toluene. Participants seek clarification on the differences between these bands and their implications in molecular orbital theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the differences between K-band, B-band, and E-band transitions in organic compounds and requests examples for better understanding.
  • Another participant suggests that these terms are outdated ways of describing π → π* and n → π* transitions in conjugated and aromatic systems.
  • A participant elaborates that R-bands are associated with n → π* transitions, while K-bands pertain to π → π* transitions in non-cyclic systems like ethylene and 1,3-butadiene.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding B and E bands, linking them to the group representation conventions from the character table for the D6h point group, specifically for benzene.
  • One participant acknowledges the explanation and relates it to the loss of E-bands when benzene's symmetry is disrupted by functional groups.
  • Links to external resources for group theoretical assignments of the bands in benzene are shared by participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of understanding and confusion regarding the terminology and implications of the different bands. There is no consensus on the clarity of the definitions or the relevance of the terms used.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the definitions and classifications may depend on historical context and may not be universally accepted in current literature.

Eureka99
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Hello everybody :)
I have a problem understanding the different types of pi -> pi * transition of organic compounds. I can't understand what's the difference between K-band, B- band, and E-bands, and I cannot find any explanation on the internet. Also I don't understand why benzene has two E bands ( E1 and E2), and Toluene only one; I also tried to see the pi molecular orbitals of different aromatic compounds, to see what pi -> pi* transitions are possible, but I found the MO's only of benzene. If anyone can explain to me the difference between the three types of band, maybe with a couple of examples, I would be very grateful.
Thanks in advance
 
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As far as I can tell, these are just really antiquated ways of talking about ##\pi \rightarrow \pi^*## and ##n \rightarrow \pi^*## transitions of various conjugated and aromatic systems.
 
TeethWhitener said:
As far as I can tell, these are just really antiquated ways of talking about ##\pi \rightarrow \pi^*## and ##n \rightarrow \pi^*## transitions of various conjugated and aromatic systems.
Really? I didn' t know that, but I guess I'll have to try to understand it anyway for the exam :sorry:
Thanks for the response :)
 
It looks like R-bands are "radical" bands, or ##n \rightarrow \pi^*##. K bands are ##\pi \rightarrow \pi^*## bands in conjugated, non-cyclic systems like ethylene or 1,3-butadiene. B and E bands refer to the group representation conventions from the character table for the ##D_{6h}## point group that benzene is a member of. B bands are transitions from the ##A_{1g}## ground state into singly degenerate ##B_{1u}## and ##B_{2u}## excited states, and E bands are transitions into the doubly degenerate ##E_{1u}## state.

(Note: the B and E bands are the only ones I'm sure of. These are still standard. The R and K bands were just what I could glean from various old papers.)
 
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TeethWhitener said:
It looks like R-bands are "radical" bands, or ##n \rightarrow \pi^*##. K bands are ##\pi \rightarrow \pi^*## bands in conjugated, non-cyclic systems like ethylene or 1,3-butadiene. B and E bands refer to the group representation conventions from the character table for the ##D_{6h}## point group that benzene is a member of. B bands are transitions from the ##A_{1g}## ground state into singly degenerate ##B_{1u}## and ##B_{2u}## excited states, and E bands are transitions into the doubly degenerate ##E_{1u}## state.

(Note: the B and E bands are the only ones I'm sure of. These are still standard. The R and K bands were just what I could glean from various old papers.)
Oh well, now it makes sense! It also makes sense why when the benzene has functional groups that make him lost its symmetry, it loses as well the E- bands. Thank you very much, that was very helpful!
 

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