Eliminating fruit from the diet

[Ivan Seeking]

I have come to the conclusion that I cannot and will never tolerate most fruits. I won't explain the long history of this decision except to say that I have a blood sugar problem that is very hard to control, and even small amounts of fruit can send me into a crisis.

I eat plenty of vegetables but I'm not sure what we get from fruit that I need to be sure comes from vegies, and what vegetables might be the best options with this in mind.

I take basic supplements but prefer to round out the diet as much as possible.

 

[phinds]

That sounds serious enough that you probably should see a nutritionist.

 

[Evo]

I have come to the conclusion that I cannot and will never tolerate most fruits. I won't explain the long history of this decision except to say that I have a blood sugar problem that is very hard to control, and even small amounts of fruit can send me into a crisis.

I eat plenty of vegetables but I'm not sure what we get from fruit that I need to be sure comes from vegies, and what vegetables might be the best options with this in mind.

I take basic supplements but prefer to round out the diet as much as possible.

Ivan, specifically, what were you diagnosed with that would limit fruit in your diet? I have not seen anything that supports your claim that fruit can cause medical problems.

Please, in addition to explaining what medical condition precludes fruits, please post the peer reviewed, mainstream medical research that supports your claims.

Bolding mine.

 

[turbo]

How about substituting fructose-heavy fruits with some vegetables that had more complex starches? Some fruits can hit you hard.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Ivan, specifically, what were you diagnosed with that would limit fruit in your diet? I have not seen anything that supports your claim that fruit can cause medical problems.

Please, in addition to explaining what medical condition precludes fruits, please post the peer reviewed, mainstream medical research that supports your claims.

Bolding mine.

I am hypersensitive to carbs. I was diagnosed with metabolic syndrome by one of the nation's leading specialists, and he explained how this all works long ago.

I'm not out to prove my claim. I am asking for some thoughts on a nutritional comparison between vegetables and fruits. It seemed reasonable to explain why.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

How about substituting fructose-heavy fruits with some vegetables that had more complex starches? Some fruits can hit you hard.

Yes, I do fine with vegetables but not legumes. I eat tons of vegetables now but suspect specific foods might be helpful in assuring that I get a good range of nutrition.

 

[mnoe]

Eating fats with carbs slows down digestion. Helps a lot with sugar control.

 

[Evo]

I am hypersensitive to carbs. I was diagnosed with metabolic syndrome by one of the nation's leading specialists, and he explained how this all works long ago.

I'm not out to prove my claim. I am asking for some thoughts on a nutritional comparison between vegetables and fruits. It seemed reasonable to explain why.

Then you should be eating a lot of fruit.

Dietary treatment of the metabolic syndrome--the optimal diet.

The detrimental effects of a high-carbohydrate diet on plasma glucose/insulin, triglyceride/HDL or fibrinolysis occur only when carbohydrate foods with a high glycaemic index are consumed, while they are abolished if the diet is based largely on fibre-rich, low-glycaemic-index foods.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10889805

glycemic index (GI) measures how quickly a food will raise your glucose level. Avoiding fluctuations in your blood sugar can reduce your risk of developing insulin resistance, associated with type 2 diabetes and heart disease. Many popular diets, such as Atkins, the Zone and South Beach, are based on choosing carbohydrates that are low on the GI and have little effect on your blood sugar. Fiber slows the absorption of glucose into your bloodstream, so fruits high in fiber tend to be low on the GI.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/407721-fruit-with-a-low-glycemic-index/#ixzz2PeTpsaTo

Oranges, for example are high in fiber and extremely low on the glycemic index, rating a 6.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1966/2

Avoid juices. Eat whole fruit.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Evo, I appreciate your input but I know all of this. I've been living with this my entire life. I'm asking for a comparison between fruits and vegetables.

My condition is fairly extreme and I'm not asking for medical advice. That is beyond the scope of this forum.

 

[Evo]

Evo, I appreciate your input but I know all of this. I've been living with this my entire life. I'm asking for a comparison between fruits and vegetables.

My condition is fairly extreme and I'm not asking for medical advice. That is beyond the scope of this forum.

I also have all of the symptoms of metabolic syndrome. I have a pooched out belly. I am very aware of it. I also know that there is no test for it and that there is no way to diagnose it aside from saying "well, these are the symptoms". I have all of the symptoms.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/metabolic syndrome/DS00522/DSECTION=tests-and-diagnosis

Metabolic syndrome is a term meaning you have certain risk factors, it is the individual risk factors that one has that can lead to heart disease and type 2 diabetes.

What are the risk factors?

Metabolic syndrome occurs when a person has three or more of the following measurements:

Abdominal obesity
Triglyceride level of 150 milligrams per deciliter of blood (mg/dL) or greater
HDL cholesterol of less than 40 mg/dL in men or less than 50 mg/dL in women
Systolic blood pressure (top number) of 130 millimeters of mercury (mm Hg) or greater
Diastolic blood pressure (bottom number) of 85 mm Hg or greater
Fasting glucose of 100 mg/dL or greater
Insulin resistance or glucose intolerance (the body can't properly use insulin or blood sugar)

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Condi...out-Metabolic-Syndrome_UCM_301920_Article.jsp

If you were told you have these risk factors then you should eat fruit.

Adopt a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, vegetables, lean meats and fish, and low-fat or fat-free dairy products and avoid processed food, which often contains partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, and is high in salt and added sugar

If you use the link I gave you to nutrition data, you can do customized searches for high fiber fruits and vegetables with a low glycemic index, which is what you are looking for.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

That sounds serious enough that you probably should see a nutritionist.

In many countries nutritionist is not a medically recognised profession and thus isn't covered by any regulation. A dietician is someone who is medically qualified to advise on diet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritionist

 

[zoobyshoe]

I eat plenty of vegetables but I'm not sure what we get from fruit that I need to be sure comes from vegies, and what vegetables might be the best options with this in mind.

You can google any fruit or vegetable and find out what nutrients are in it. I don't believe there's anything in fruit that can't also be found in vegetables. Lists of the essential vitamins and minerals we need must be all over the web. You can compare that to what's found in various vegetables to make sure you're getting what you need without fruit.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Just to clarify, as is indicated by my glucose meter and by my glucose tolerance test which left me unconscious, when I eat carbs I tend to release far too much insulin. I have passed out from this quite a few times, perhaps 20 times or more. I estimate that I've tolerated at least 5000 blood sugar crises over the course of my life that left me shaky and nauseas at a minimum - all as low blood sugar as a result of consuming carbs. In fact for most of my early life I felt terrible every morning - every morning I was eating a very "healthy breakfast" that was sending me right into a crisis. But when I was very young, I thought this was normal! I thought everyone felt terrible in the morning.

One night, poor Integral and his wife had me crashed out on their living room floor after dinner! I make a heck of a dinner guest, eh?

I don't have classic metabolic syndrome, which is usually adult onset. And I'm not insulin resistant. I am hypersensitive to carbs and was born with this. So it seems that I'm special. All that I can really do is to see what causes problems. At times it doesn't seem to make much sense but the glycemic index is a good start. To say the least, this has been a lifelong struggle and it has sabotaged my life many times. I have only taken extreme measures as a last resort. And only in the last two years have really started to get this under control for the first time. But time and time again, fruit causes my blood sugar to crash. Last week, a small amount of fruit took me out of commission for over 24 hours. That was my first serious crisis in about nine months [the last was caused by a beer] and my tolerance to carbs is as high now as it has been since I remember, so I give up.

Zooby, you alluded to what most interests me. I can compare the basics but didn't know if there are any hidden variables that make fruit unique. I do plan to talk with a dietician but wanted to start exploring this issue.

 

[phinds]

In many countries nutritionist is not a medically recognised profession and thus isn't covered by any regulation. A dietician is someone who is medically qualified to advise on diet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritionist

Yes, I mis-spoke on this. I did MEAN dietician. Thanks.

 

[fluidistic]

How do you feel if you eat an avocado? I think it's rich in carbs (bad for you?), low on sugars and rich in fibers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avocado#Culinary_uses
It's a fruit, I guess you knew this. But somehow different from other fuits when it comes to sugar levels.

Edit: Check out the quinoa. It's not a vegetable and despite being high on carbs, it has tons of nutriments from which hopefully you can find in fruits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinoa#Nutritional_value
I don't think it would be bad to experiment a bit if you have not yet and eat a very small portion of it.

 

[OmCheeto]

Does the ripeness of the fruit make a difference?
Really ripe fruit always tastes sweeter to me. (Fructose = simple carb)
Try eating a green/pink strawberry.

http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/carbs.html

Quick Q& A
I've heard there are "good" carbs and "bad" carbs? Can you provide me more information?

Some diet books use "bad" carbs to talk about foods with refined carbohydrates (i.e., meaning they're made from white flour and added sugars).

Examples include white bread, cakes, and cookies.

"Good" carbs is used to describe foods that have more fiber and complex carbohydrates. Complex carbohydrates are carbohydrates that take longer to break down into glucose; such as vegetables, fruits, whole grains and beans.

I diagnosed myself about 20 years ago with what I would describe as "non-debilitating, but I need 3 alarm clocks to wake me up in the morning" type of hypoglycemia.

The diagnosis was actually made by a doctor on TV describing my symptoms. He also prescribed the cure. I tried it, and it worked. When others describe my symptoms, I recommend the simple "cure". They claim I'm a genius, as it always seems to work.

ps. That doctor on TV? I believe it was Lendon Smith. Good god. I've just discovered that he is now considered a quack!

pps. I do believe in his basic tenet though; "Good nutrition is paramount".

ppps. I've only witnessed a "diabetic" type episode once in my life. It wasn't really frightening until I read up on what was happening inside the person I was sitting next to. Neuroglycopenia is not something to be unaware of.

 

[Evo]

Ivan, there are some differences, funny, I don't eat fruit, but I'm trying to eat healthier and a few weeks ago had found a paper that explained some of the differences in (I'll call them "stuff in the fruit" that was different from veggies). So there are some things you'd lose out on, not sure how big of a deal they are, since veggies and fruit do share a lot of similar qualities. So I went out and bought fruit.

I will try to locate the study for you.

 

[Turion]

Ivan, you should really seek a dietitian instead of posting on an online forum.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Zooby, you alluded to what most interests me. I can compare the basics but didn't know if there are any hidden variables that make fruit unique. I do plan to talk with a dietician but wanted to start exploring this issue.

If fruit has something unique it's not a vitamin or mineral. I am betting, though, a dietician will concur that you can completely switch to vegetables and suffer no deprivation whatever.

 

[mazinse]

If fruit has something unique it's not a vitamin or mineral. I am betting, though, a dietician will concur that you can completely switch to vegetables and suffer no deprivation whatever.

lets bet on fiber then, it helps the digestion process

 

[bobze]

2nd the RD. Also you might look into the V8 fruit splash stuff-juice. My friends wife (an RD) told me it was adequate to drink as replacement fruit from what she has found in the literature. Maybe see if you can tolerate that. They have low sugar ones.

 

[Ms Music]

Ivan, if I can add a tiny thought... Fruits are a good source of vitamins and minerals, and many of your berries seem to have their specific nutrients by color, so make sure the vegetables you eat are extremely varied and in all colors? It seems I read before that purple cabbage has something typically found in purple fruit, or something similar to that at least. Be an artist with your food, and make sure it is colorful. :) That should reduce any major vitamin and mineral deficiencies from eliminating fruit, and other deficiencies can be discussed with a nutritionist.

 

[Monique]

As a resource you can use the SuperTracker to monitor some basic nutrients in your food. That is under My Reports > Nutrient Report: https://www.supertracker.usda.gov/foodtracker.aspx

In addition you can look up the nutritional value of foods in the Food-A-Pedia. Look up a fruit/vegetable and click Nutrient info: https://www.supertracker.usda.gov/foodapedia.aspx

 

[aroc91]

I think it's rich in carbs (bad for you?), low on sugars and rich in fibers.

Kind of surprised nobody caught this...

Sugars = carbs.

 

[Monique]

Kind of surprised nobody caught this...

Sugars = carbs.

Yes, but they are a specific subset.. something can be rich in carbs and low in sugars.

 

[aroc91]

Yes, but they are a specific subset.. something can be rich in carbs and low in sugars.

Not sure where they teach that. Carbohydrates and sugars are interchangeable. They're not separate categories.

 

[OmCheeto]

... Sugars = carbs.

Not sure where they teach that. Carbohydrates and sugars are interchangeable. They're not separate categories.

In food science and in many informal contexts, the term carbohydrate often means any food that is particularly rich in the complex carbohydrate starch

This seems to imply that sugar = starch.

If that is true, then why is there a step in beer brewing to convert starches into sugars?

14.5 The Starch Conversion/Saccharification Rest

Finally we come to the main event: making sugar from the starch reserves. In this regime the diastatic enzymes start acting on the starches, breaking them up into sugars (hence the term saccharification).

I may be a hopeless drunk, but that would seem pretty stupid of me to waste all that time.

 

[Monique]

Not sure where they teach that. Carbohydrates and sugars are interchangeable. They're not separate categories.

A sugar is a mono- or disaccharide. Complex carbohydrates can be broken down in sugars, yes (they are sugar polymers).

Cellulose for instance is a glucose polymer, but cellulose is not sugar.