News Elite Israeli Troops Refuse To Serve in the Territories

[Carlos Hernandez]

Elite Israeli Troops Refuse To Serve in the Territories

By Molly Moore
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, December 22, 2003; Page A19

JERUSALEM, Dec. 21 -- Thirteen reservists from Israel's elite military commando unit stated Sunday in a letter to the prime minister that they would no longer serve in the occupied territories, joining other influential security officials who have recently criticized Israeli military tactics and treatment of the Palestinians.

"We have long ago crossed the line between fighters fighting a just cause and oppressing another people," three officers and 10 soldiers of the army's most secretive unit, the Sayeret Matkal, said in the letter to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. The letter was made public by the soldiers, who signed with their ranks, first names and the first letter of their last names.

Complete text at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20118-2003Dec21.html

 

[kat]

"13:30 IDF Chief of Staff Ya`alon: Signatories of refusal letter could be thrown out of army reserve duty"

now there is an idea.

 

[Carlos Hernandez]

By law, every Israeli, once they turn 18, have to join the army. So, many Jews who don't support Arab genocide still are forced to shoot them in Palestine by joining the Army.

Carlos Hernandez

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Carlos Hernandez
By law, every Israeli, once they turn 18, have to join the army.

every Israeli does not have to join..check your facts this is B.S.

So, many Jews who don't support Arab genocide still are forced to shoot them

Your use of the word 'genocide' is cute bit of rhetoric but not quite appropriate. Aside from that Israel has a conscious objector law which allows soldiers to disregard illegal orders. A law that has been utilized by soldiers.

 

[Carlos Hernandez]

Originally posted by kat
every Israeli does not have to join..check your facts this is B.S.

Here is the proof that every Israeli, once they turn 18, has to serve in the Army:

http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/886/886_israel.asp
http://www.jafi.org.il/education/downloads/english4.pdf

And from http://www.jewishpost.com/jp0506/jpn0506c.htm

"Furthermore, when the children reach the age of 18 they, according to the law, must serve in the Israeli army or might be defined as military deserters, at least, in the army’s computers."

Everything I say can be searched on the internet. This is why politicians hate the inernet, they can't control the information, not as yet, anyway, but they are working on it.

I should mention though that only Jews in israel are required to serve in the army. Israeli arab citizens are banned from serving because of segregation laws in Israel, similar to the Black Crow laws against BLacks in America.

Carlos Hernandez

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Carlos Hernandez
Here is the proof that every Israeli, once they turn 18, has to serve in the Army:

http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/886/886_israel.asp
http://www.jafi.org.il/education/downloads/english4.pdf

And from http://www.jewishpost.com/jp0506/jpn0506c.htm

"Furthermore, when the children reach the age of 18 they, according to the law, must serve in the Israeli army or might be defined as military deserters, at least, in the army’s computers."

Everything I say can be searched on the internet. This is why politicians hate the inernet, they can't control the information, not as yet, anyway, but they are working on it.

Yes, just about everything can be searched on the internet...but, as people here have been telling you..not everything you find is accurate or dependable. Now, I know my information about the IDF in both first hand account from members of the IDF as well as through various Israeli News sources. This link goes into some detail and is quite accurate http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/IDF
The information you find at that site corresponds with what I have heard from those in the IDF. That Druze arabs are compulsory service in the IDF and that many Bedoiun do volunteer...other Arabs are EXEMPTED from service..yet they do sometimes volunteer.
Religious Jews are exempted from service in order to study the Yeshiva..many study it for a lifetime therefor in reality are exempt from service. All of the above druze, bedoiun, palestinian arabs and Jews religious or not are ISRAELI's. So it is incorrect to say ALL Israeli's are compulsory service.

I should mention though that only Jews in israel are required to serve in the army. Israeli arab citizens are banned from serving because of segregation laws in Israel, similar to the Black Crow laws against BLacks in America.

Carlos Hernandez

I should mention that, and I did mention that..Arabs are EXEMPT from service not BANNED. Big difference.

 

[Carlos Hernandez]

Originally posted by kat

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at it.

Carlos Hernandez

 

[Zero]

Good for them, for taking a stand against human rights violations. After all, they are in a position to know firsthand, aren't they? And, of course, Israelis should be more aware than most that committing crimes against humanity cannot be excused by saying you were just following orders.

 

[kat]

Zero,
my sense is that many aren't refusing because of humanitarian issues but because they see it as useless to risk their lives protecting settlers and areas that in the end they see are going to be returned anyway. Many of these guys are in their 30's and have families and childrens...as well as civilian jobs that they value and that pay far better then the reserves do.

So I think there are two different points here and it might be good to separate them. A few questions.

1) Should the state of israel be in the territories in any measure at all? you choose what ever answer you like.

2) If a citizen decides that because the enterprise does not make sense and therefore the state should get out, should that citizen-reserve duty soldier refuse to do duty?

And followup to question 2)

2a) If the GOI allows soldiers to refuse to do duty in the territories do they also have to allow soldiers the right to refuse to evacuate settlements?