Elliptic functions, properties of periods, discrete subgroup

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around properties of elliptic functions and the associated group structure of a set denoted as ##\Omega##. Participants are examining a proof related to the behavior of elements within this group, particularly focusing on the implications of group properties in the context of distances between points in the complex plane.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of group properties, particularly closure, and how they relate to distances between elements in the set ##\Omega##. There are questions about the spacing of discrete points and the use of the triangle inequality in the context of the proof.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the relationship between group properties and the proof, while others are seeking clarification on specific steps and concepts. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of the discrete nature of the set and how it affects the understanding of the proof.

Contextual Notes

Participants note a lack of familiarity with group theory, which may affect their understanding of the proof. There is also mention of the original source material, which some participants do not have access to, potentially limiting their ability to visualize the concepts being discussed.

binbagsss
Messages
1,291
Reaction score
12

Homework Statement



HiI am following this proof attached and am just stuck on the bit that says:

Untitled.png
‘since ##\Omega## is a group it follows that ##|z-\omega|<2\epsilon ## contains..’Tbh, I have little knowledge on groups , it’s not a subject I have really studied in any of my classes-so the only thing I can think to look to do is look at the defining properties of a group :

Identity exists, inverse exists, closure and associativity

I believe it may be using the ‘converse’ of closure so something like if ##a \in \Omega ## and ##b## is not then ##a+b## is not in ##\Omega## ?(not a true converse since it is necessary , not sufficient..but..)

Lastly, if this was the case, there should be a ##\epsilon_1## and a ##\epsilon_2##, surely there is nothing to suggest that the discrete points in the set ##\Omega## are equally spaced? (unless ofc, it is a set of periods, which in this case it is, but this hasn’t been derived quite yet, this comes after).I’m probably way off track, but help much appreciated.

Many thanks

Homework Equations



see above

The Attempt at a Solution


see above
 

Attachments

  • Untitled.png
    Untitled.png
    32.7 KB · Views: 627
Physics news on Phys.org
binbagsss said:
‘since ##\Omega## is a group it follows that ##|z-\omega|<2\varepsilon## contains no element in ##\Omega \backslash \{\,\omega\,\}##'
Assume we have a ##\nu \in \Omega \backslash \{\,\omega\,\}## within this ball. Then ##\mu := \nu+\omega \in \Omega## and ##|z-\mu|=|(z - \omega ) - \nu | < 2\varepsilon## in contradiction that there is no such element around ##z##.
 
binbagsss said:
... surely there is nothing to suggest that the discrete points in the set ##\Omega## are equally spaced?
So? They are not equally spaced. We have a lattice with a parallelepiped as basis cell, i.e. two side of possibly different lengths. Along one direction they have to be equally spaced, because of the minimality of our choices ##\omega_j ##. As sums and differences are still elements of ##\Omega##, any shorter point would lead to a smaller ##\omega_j ##.
 
fresh_42 said:
and ##|z-\mu|=|(z - \omega ) - \nu | < 2\varepsilon## .

How did you get to this step though , this is the one I am stuck on, which claims to use group properties I think. In the course book, a course In complex arithmetic by jones and singerman, something like that, unfortunately I don't have the book anymore, it is drawn as a diagram , shifting the point in the complex plane, with the same radius, and says by using group properties...
 
fresh_42 said:
So? They are not equally spaced. We have a lattice with a parallelepiped as basis cell, i.e. two side of possibly different lengths. Along one direction they have to be equally spaced, because of the minimality of our choices ##\omega_j ##. As sums and differences are still elements of ##\Omega##, any shorter point would lead to a smaller ##\omega_j ##.

To sound really stupid...how'd you mean only along one direction they have to be equally spaced ? I thought a parallelogram has both sets of parallel lines have the opposite parallel line equal in length .
 
binbagsss said:
How did you get to this step though , this is the one I am stuck on, which claims to use group properties I think. In the course book, a course In complex arithmetic by jones and singerman, something like that, unfortunately I don't have the book anymore, it is drawn as a diagram , shifting the point in the complex plane, with the same radius, and says by using group properties...
To be honest: I scribbled some circles around ##z## and ##\omega##, to imagine the situation. All we have here is the triangle inequality. The group property is only used to grant that certain points are still in ##\Omega##.
binbagsss said:
To sound really stupid...how'd you mean only along one direction they have to be equally spaced ? I thought a parallelogram has both sets of parallel lines have the opposite parallel line equal in length .
Sure, but the points are not spread in equal distances, only a square would have: ##\omega_1 \perp \omega_2\; , \;|\omega_1| = |\omega_2|##. In general, two diagonal points have a greater distance than two neighbored points, and between the two neighbors, there is also one closer than the other. Only in one direction ##\omega_i## are all points equal hops.
 
binbagsss said:
How did you get to this step though , this is the one I am stuck on, which claims to use group properties I think. In the course book, a course In complex arithmetic by jones and singerman, something like that, unfortunately I don't have the book anymore, it is drawn as a diagram , shifting the point in the complex plane, with the same radius, and says by using group properties...

Suppose |z - \omega| &lt; 2\epsilon contains an element \zeta \in \Omega \setminus \{\omega\}.

Then it follows by closure that \zeta - \omega \in \Omega \setminus \{0\}. But by definition |\zeta - \omega| &lt; 2\epsilon, which is a contradiction.
 
pasmith said:
Suppose |z - \omega| &lt; 2\epsilon contains an element \zeta \in \Omega \setminus \{\omega\}.

Then it follows by closure that \zeta - \omega \in \Omega \setminus \{0\}. But by definition |\zeta - \omega| &lt; 2\epsilon, which is a contradiction.
Ok thanks I understand how to do the step with this argument.

Why do he notes say ' because it is a group ' though, only discreetness has been used right ?
 
fresh_42 said:
To be honest: I scribbled some circles around ##z## and ##\omega##, to imagine the situation. All we have here is the triangle inequality. The group property is only used to grant that certain points are still in ##\Omega##.

How's would you use the triangle inequality ? I understand the argument used below by contradiction but not sure how you would use the triangle inequality for this ?

Also why do the notes say ' since ##\Omega ## is a group ?

Thanks
 
  • #10
binbagsss said:
How's would you use the triangle inequality ? I understand the argument used below by contradiction but not sure how you would use the triangle inequality for this ?
See post #2.
Also why do the notes say ' since ##\Omega ## is a group ?

Thanks
Because we have a sum of two points of ##\Omega## and use that this is again in ##\Omega##.
 
  • #11
fresh_42 said:
See post #2.
Because we have a sum of two points of ##\Omega## and use that this is again in ##\Omega##.
Mm sorry yes thsnks, I overlooked that since the sum of two periods being a period seems intuitively
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K