EMI potential difference question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of rotating motional electromotive force (emf) and the use of effective length in its calculation. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings and mathematical approaches to understanding this phenomenon, particularly in the context of problems from physics textbooks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about why effective length can be used to calculate emf in rotating systems, questioning the implications of varying velocities at different points.
  • Others suggest that while using effective length may be an easier approach, it is not the only method, as calculus can also be employed to solve the problem.
  • A participant requests assistance in proving that the shape of the object does not affect the calculation of motional emf, particularly in cases involving rotation.
  • There are mentions of specific problems from textbooks, such as H C Verma and DC Pandey, indicating that these sources may provide context for the discussion.
  • Some participants propose that the effective length can be validated through calculus, asking if others know how to set up a differential equation for this purpose.
  • One participant suggests focusing on a specific section of the problem to demonstrate that the arc-length can be treated as a straight line for emf calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the use of effective length in calculating motional emf, with multiple competing views and approaches presented. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the proof that shape does not matter in this context.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions about the relationship between shape and emf, as well as the mathematical steps involved in proving the effective length concept. Some participants express uncertainty about the applicability of different methods.

Mausam
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This is not a homework.i am not able to understand rotating motional emf .so could u please tell why could we use the effective length to calculate emf in this case .
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Is that problem from H C Verma?
Mausam said:
so could u please tell why could we use the effective length to calculate emf in this case .
Maybe that is an easier approach, but not the only one. It can also be solved using the straightforward calculus method. Is the answer given?
 
Last edited:
Please can anyone help me to prove that in this case the shape doesn't matter and hence effective length can be used to calculate motional emf
 
Last edited:
cnh1995 said:
Is that problem from H C Verma?

Maybe that is an easier approach, but not the only one. It can also be solved using the straightforward calculus method. Is the answer given?
Thank you so much for your reply ,yes the answer is given, actually had a doubt that why can we use the effective length though the velocity of every point is different.i mean i am not able to prove that the shape doesn't matter ...so could u please help me prove it in this case ,i am able to prove it when there is no rotation. This is from DC PANDEY
I have attached the solution if it helps
 

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Mausam said:
Thank you so much for your reply ,yes the answer is given, actually had a doubt that why can we use the effective length though the velocity of every point is different.i mean i am not able to prove that the shape doesn't matter ...so could u please help me prove it in this case ,i am able to prove it when there is no rotation. This is from DC PANDEY
I have attached the solution if it helps
This effective length part can be proved using some calculus. Do you know how to set up a differential equation?
 
Could u please elaborate
 
cnh1995 said:
This effective length part can be proved using some calculus. Do you know how to set up a differential equation?
If possible can u please elaborate on it
And is there any simple explanation...
I do know to set up and solve differential equations
 
Mausam said:
Could u please elaborate
Consider the section OCA only. Here, you want to show that arc-length AC is effectively equal to the straight line distance AC. What is the emf induced in the straight line AC if length AC=l?
 
cnh1995 said:
Consider the section OCA only. Here, you want to show that arc-length AC is effectively equal to the straight line distance AC. What is the emf induced in the straight line AC if length AC=l?
It's half(B)(w)L²
 

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