Energy of block hitting a spring

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a block released from a height that compresses a spring upon impact. Participants are exploring the relationship between gravitational potential energy and spring potential energy, particularly focusing on the maximum speed of the block after it compresses the spring.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to understand the energy conservation principles involved, questioning the derivation of the equilibrium position and the interpretation of energy terms in the equations provided.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the concepts of potential and kinetic energy, with some participants clarifying the roles of different energy forms in the context of the problem. Questions about the definitions of energy loss and gain are being actively discussed, indicating a productive dialogue.

Contextual Notes

Participants are considering the reference point for potential energy and how it affects the calculations. The discussion includes assumptions about the equilibrium position and its implications for energy transformations.

Kot
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Homework Statement


A block released from height h hits a spring with constant k, the box compresses the spring a distance x then returns to the same height.

Find the maximum speed of the block.


Homework Equations


K=1/2mv2
U=mgh

The Attempt at a Solution


This solution was provided by my professor but I have a couple of questions about it.

The equilibrium point is Sequ =mg/k
so this is where potential energy is it's lowest and kinetic energy is at it's highest.

1/2mvmax2=mg(h+Sequ) - 1/2k(Sequ)2

mg(h+mg/k) - 1/2k (mg/k)2

1/2 mvmax2 = mgh + 1/2 (mg/k)2/k

vmax2 = 2gh + (m/k)g2

vmax = √(2gh + (m/k)g2)


I am confused as to why my professor set Sequ equal to mg/k. Did this come from Fspring = kx? Could someone explain this to me?
 
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Hi Kot...

The block accelerates in the downward direction till it reaches the equilibrium position.After that it decelerates ,till its speed becomes zero(the spring achieves maximum compression) .At the equilibrium position the net force on the block in vertical direction is zero .

Now,the forces are mg downwards and kx(spring force) upwards.So mg-kx=0 or x=mg/k where x is the equilibrium position.
 
I see, so for 1/2mvmax2=mg(h+Sequ) - 1/2k(Sequ)2

The left hand side is the kinetic energy of the block, the right hand side is the potential energy of the block and the spring? Since the spring is compressed there is potential energy stored in it but why is it subtracted from the potential energy of the block?
 
Kot said:
I see, so for 1/2mvmax2=mg(h+Sequ) - 1/2k(Sequ)2

The left hand side is the kinetic energy of the block, the right hand side is the potential energy of the block and the spring? Since the spring is compressed there is potential energy stored in it but why is it subtracted from the potential energy of the block?

Using energy conservation,

Loss in potential energy of the block = Gain in kinetic energy of the block + Gain in potential energy of the spring.

mg(h+Sequ) = 1/2mvmax2 + 1/2k(Sequ)2

Rearranging,1/2mvmax2=mg(h+Sequ) - 1/2k(Sequ)2

which is what your professor has done.
 
If there were no spring, then the conservation of energy would mean that: loss in potential energy of the block = Gain in kinetic energy of the block, correct?
 
Correct
 
Last edited:
Wait a minute, how can I tell that mg(h+Sequ) is loss in potential energy instead of gain and the other terms are gain in kinetic and potential energy? Is there a way to determine this?
 
Kot said:
Wait a minute, how can I tell that mg(h+Sequ) is loss in potential energy instead of gain and the other terms are gain in kinetic and potential energy? Is there a way to determine this?

When an object is lifted up from ground to an elevated position ,does the potential energy increase or decrease ?
 
Lifting an object increases it's potential energy since the height increased. So since the distance of the block is h+Sequ the distance is actually lower thus resulting in loss of potential energy?
 
Last edited:
  • #10
PE = mgh where h is the height from the reference point .As the object moves up ,PE increases.As it goes down PE decreases.
 
  • #11
If h is the distance from a reference point and we add Sequ then that means the height would have increased, and potential energy would have increased... I'm confused :(
 
  • #12
Reference point means h=0(or PE=0).

If you consider equilibrium position to be the reference point i.e measure distances from the equilibrium point ,then the block is initially at height h+mg/k or has PE mg(h+mg/k) .

Now when the block falls down and reaches the equilibrium position(PE=0) ,all this stored PE converts into the Kinetic energy of the block + elastic potential energy of the spring .

Does this help?
 
  • #13
Yes! Thank you for explaining this to me :)
 

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