Engineering Engineering PhD: frustrated and unemployed

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A recent Ph.D. graduate in heat and mass transfer from a top engineering school is struggling to find a job despite strong academic credentials and relevant internships. After nearly a year of applying to various positions, including postdocs and industrial roles, the individual has received no interview offers, leading to financial distress and concerns about credit issues. Suggestions from the forum include adopting a more targeted job search strategy, considering the removal of the Ph.D. from the resume to avoid being perceived as overqualified, and exploring alternative job markets or fields. The discussion highlights a broader concern about the challenges faced by highly educated individuals in the current job market. Many participants express frustration over the disconnect between advanced degrees and employment opportunities, emphasizing the need for adaptability in job searching.
  • #51
twofish-quant said:
The other thing is that you will find that there are many CS Ph.D.'s that just can't program, which shouldn't be surprising if you think about it.

I'm glad to see people talking openly about this. Has everyone here read about "FizzBuzz" yet? I'd post links, but I'm not allowed to yet because I'm new to PhysicsForums. (Google "FizzBuzz" and click any of the top results.)

One of the astro grad students in my department gave an informal talk about finding a career outside academia with a physics PhD. The short version: "Learn to write working code. It doesn't need to be amazing - just logical and clearly readable. Apply for lots of programming jobs."

He's obviously biased towards coding because he makes a ton of money as a lead programmer at a private company that has nothing to do with astrophysics. But I suspect it's still good advice. Anyone here have some good success/fail stories or related wisdom?
 
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  • #52
NegativeDept said:
I'm glad to see people talking openly about this. Has everyone here read about "FizzBuzz" yet? I'd post links, but I'm not allowed to yet because I'm new to PhysicsForums. (Google "FizzBuzz" and click any of the top results.)

One of the astro grad students in my department gave an informal talk about finding a career outside academia with a physics PhD. The short version: "Learn to write working code. It doesn't need to be amazing - just logical and clearly readable. Apply for lots of programming jobs."

He's obviously biased towards coding because he makes a ton of money as a lead programmer at a private company that has nothing to do with astrophysics. But I suspect it's still good advice. Anyone here have some good success/fail stories or related wisdom?

On being able to code:

You should surely know that if you want to make anywhere near 50k or more, your job will be sitting at a desk. The world has changed since the 1950s. Modern desks usually have a computer sitting on top of them. Not being able to code at all states one of two things:

1. Coding is beneath me, I want a personal coding ***** that forges my highly valuable ideas into code.

2. I am delusional enough to actually believe that my future job will be me sitting in a shiny office that contains a comfortable bed on which ill lie down while trying to perform thoughts that all the other employees are too stupid to perform.

While this might not be what you think, this is the impression a hiring manager will have of you. Get your coding skills. Doesnt have to be much. You don't have to be able to code a kernel from scratch. But please, do yourself the favor of picking up rudimentary C++ skills. Show goodwill. Thats all there is to it. Not being able to code is not a big deal. The impression you make saying so is.

Other than that, a physicist who took his theoretical coursework seriously and can code has the best marketable skillset of any graduate. At that point, if you don't get a job, the economy is either at a point where youd rather have learned farming or its something about your character that is just so much off that nobody will give you a job.
 
  • #53
Wayn3 said:
On being able to code:
Other than that, a physicist who took his theoretical coursework seriously and can code has the best marketable skillset of any graduate.

I hope so, because that's me and I'm about to finish my PhD!

Though like many physicists, "can code" comes with a caveat: we tend to be idiot savants. I suspect that, from a professional programmer's point of view, much of our work looks like cute little single-text-file programs with nightmarishly complicated numerical algorithms.

Examples: I wrote an RSA key generator for fun, but I've never coded a GUI. I can simulate sample paths of stochastic differential equations on Lie groups, but I can't write an iPhone app. Do most employers consider that impressive, embarrassing, or both?
 
  • #54
NegativeDept said:
Examples: I wrote an RSA key generator for fun, but I've never coded a GUI. I can simulate sample paths of stochastic differential equations on Lie groups, but I can't write an iPhone app. Do most employers consider that impressive, embarrassing, or both?

I don't know...I'd like to know the answer to that!
 
  • #55
You're not alone. I had to leave grad school in November after getting diagnosed with Manic Depressive disorder. Since then I have racked up $6000 in debt with 2 interviews and 2 rejections, I'm feeling pretty bad myself. At least you have a part time job to keep you going, I got shafted on that too :(. I hate saying "have faith", because I think that's a bunch of garbage, but the consequences of giving up are far worse that toughing it out.

Good luck, you arent alone.
 
  • #56
ilmareofthemai said:
I don't know...I'd like to know the answer to that!

It depends on the organization. You'd do well to apply to research and engineering companies, rather than to places like Zynga and Dropbox.

Aero51 said:
You're not alone. I had to leave grad school in November after getting diagnosed with Manic Depressive disorder. Since then I have racked up $6000 in debt with 2 interviews and 2 rejections, I'm feeling pretty bad myself. At least you have a part time job to keep you going, I got shafted on that too :(. I hate saying "have faith", because I think that's a bunch of garbage, but the consequences of giving up are far worse that toughing it out.

Good luck, you arent alone.

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. I wish you nothing but the best.
 
  • #57
surprise surprise

I noticed this thread and feel a lot of empathy for those who have posted. I too have had similar situations.

I've been working for a number of years as an engineer (started working before completing my PhD). In my experience, there has been a noticeable decline in employer interest, when I list the PhD on my resume in an application to a developer job. I have been in the situation of needing to change jobs quickly, and I've really hit a wall when it comes to being perceived as overqualified. My job search has become most difficult at this point, and it's very frustrating.

Even after I removed the engineering PhD from the resume, I'm still having issues, even with work experience and a job currently. Engineering is apparently so vast of a field that job areas have become very niche. I've found that it's difficult even to move from the area of engineering I have experience with into another area that is "hot" and in greater demand. The best time to break into a new field is right out of undergrad, or right out of a graduate program if one has really no prior work experience.

I feel very stuck with my current line of work. My spouse is creating a lot of pressure for me to change fields into one that's more highly-paid and has better work/life balance. Doesn't sound entirely unreasonable, but doing this has become harder than it initially seemed. I don't want to get too personal about the situation, but it is really bothering me, in addition to my feelings of helplessness.

This situation has come as a big surprise to me after investing years in developing myself academically and professionally. My advice for anyone facing the same hurdle in their job search is: Stay motivated, and give a lot of attention to how you're marketing yourself with your resume. If you come across as too slated towards a specialized area of science or engineering, HR will likely toss your resume aside. Try to convey yourself as someone with a variety of general technical skills (e.g. software development, laboratory work, quantitative analysis). Pitch your dissertation project as a feat of project management. Highlight your presentation skills if you've spoken at scientific/technical conferences. Don't list publications, unless you're applying to research jobs. Computer skills are important, but try to limit what you to list in your resume to what may have broader uses in industry (programming languages and statistical compute packages). Summarizing yourself as a candidate with portable skills wanting to make a career transition at the top of your resume (below name, address of course) might not be a bad idea as well.

Hopefully this didn't come across as completely scattered, and who knows, maybe it will help someone. I wish everyone the best in their job search!
 
  • #58
This post dates back to 2011. I'm curious if the OP has been able to find a suitable position in his/her field since that time.
 
  • #59
thank guys for all your emphaty. I am in fact already forgot this post until today, when i want to post a mathematical question, i found out that I already have this account.

Nevertheless, I will answer your question in case you;re wondering how i am surviving.

Let me share with you guys my little secret.
Until today, i still can't find a PhD job!
I did get some interviews, yet their salary offered < what I have now.
So, i reject some of them. This gives me a little bit of boost of self pride though.

Although, i don't have a PhD job, but I am still thankful that I have a job that pays better than a PhD job.
I am currently working as a programmer, or a PLC programmer.

Nevertheless, I am still keep looking to find a PhD job :)

Hope anyone out there can get a bit of hope from my sharing.
 

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