Equating Gas Pressure and Projectile Stagnation Pressure

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the stagnation pressure of a projectile and the gas pressure within a chamber, as well as the potential connections between the kinetic energy of the projectile and the energy of the gas. Participants explore the validity of specific mathematical statements and the underlying physical principles involved.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the initial stagnation pressure of a projectile can be expressed as 0.5p{v0}^2 and questions if it can be equated to the final gas pressure Pg = nkT.
  • Another participant argues that a solid projectile cannot have a stagnation pressure, suggesting that the concept applies only to fluids.
  • A participant expresses confusion over the notation used in the equations, particularly questioning the meaning of symbols like g and n, and suggests that the equations may be incorrect or unclear.
  • One participant states that while energies can be related, only energy differences should be considered, and emphasizes the need for additional information about pressure conditions to make valid comparisons.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumptions of isentropic flow in the context of the projectile impacting the gas, with uncertainty about whether the flow remains barotropic.
  • Another participant requests clearer notation and adherence to LaTeX standards for mathematical expressions, indicating that the current presentation is difficult to interpret.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of stagnation pressure to solid projectiles and the clarity of the mathematical expressions presented. There is no consensus on the validity of the proposed equations or the physical principles involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in the notation and assumptions made regarding the gas laws and flow conditions, indicating that further clarification is needed to fully understand the relationships being discussed.

user1111999
Imagine a projectile with density p, initial velocity v0 and initial stagnation pressure = 0.5p{v0}^2 being fired into the gas chamber with a final gas pressure given by Pg = nkT, for n being the final number density before (at max pressure of gas) and T the corresponding temperature of the gas.

Is it true that the initial stagnation pressure and final gas pressure can be related, as well as the final gas energy and initial projectile kinetic energy? Or mathematically are the following statements true?

0.5p{v0}^2 = nkT (Statement 1)
and
0.5m{v0}^2 = NkT


12ρpvp02=nkBTf and12mpvp02=NkBTf For m being the mass of the projectile and N being the number of particles in the gas. I have attached a diagram of the intended thought experiment below:
Screenshot 2024-09-06 102300.png
 
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Only a fluid can have a stagnation pressure. A solid projectile can't.
 
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user1111999 said:
Imagine a projectile with density p, initial velocity v0 and initial stagnation pressure = 0.5p{v0}^2

the equation ##p = 0.5\rho v_0^2## (now ##p## is pressure and ##\rho## is density, as per usual convention) means nothing in this case. You should use its kinetic energy: ##E_k = 0.5m v_0^2##.

user1111999 said:
being fired into the gas chamber with a final gas pressure given by Pg = nkT, for n being the final number density before (at max pressure of gas) and T the corresponding temperature of the gas.

But what is ##g## in this equation? Usually the symbol is used for gravitational acceleration, but that makes no sense here. And ##k## is the Boltzmann constant?

Also, in common notation regarding the gas law ##n## is the amount of substance (gas) in moles. The term 'number density' means nothing to me.

The equation ##Pg=nkT## is either incorrect or uses strange symbols for common quantities, making it unreadable. Could you specify the actual equation you mean?


user1111999 said:
Is it true that the initial stagnation pressure and final gas pressure can be related, as well as the final gas energy and initial projectile kinetic energy? Or mathematically are the following statements true?

You can only relate the energies, and actually only energy differences (i.e. the change in kinetic energy is added to the gas). Using the gas law is not enough here. With the gas law you can equate:

$$
\frac{p_1 V_1}{T_1} = \frac{p_2 V_2}{T_2}
$$

with ##V## the volume. But then you need the pressure in the end condition, for which you need something like the isentropic flow relations. But then again, that assumes, well, isentropic flow. Usually slamming a 'projectile' into some container is not isentropic.

(or actually, I'm thinking, maybe the problem is that it does not remain Barotropic? I'm not sure here. But that of course also depends on how fast the projectile is slamming into the container)

user1111999 said:
12ρpvp02=nkBTf and12mpvp02=NkBTf

This is gibberish to me. Please use the LaTeX Guide.
 
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Thread closed temporarily for Moderation...
 
At OP's request, the thread will remain closed. Thanks folks.
 

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