Excitation and Polarization of Light

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the excitation of a carbonyl (C=O) group by polarized light, specifically examining the effects of p-polarized and s-polarized light on the molecular stretching. The scope includes theoretical considerations of light polarization and molecular interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that p-polarized light will excite the carbonyl stretch due to alignment of the electric field vector with the molecular dipole, while s-polarized light will not cause excitation as the vectors are perpendicular.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of diffraction gratings and discusses the behavior of polarized light passing through multiple polarizers, indicating that light can remain polarized or be blocked depending on the orientation of the polarizers.
  • A later reply clarifies the relationship between the electric dipole moment and the electric field vector, stating that if they are perpendicular, the perturbation Hamiltonian becomes zero, implying no excitation occurs.
  • Another participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the relationship between polarization and absorption, suggesting that their initial reasoning about excitation was incorrect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the excitation of the carbonyl stretch by polarized light, with some supporting the idea that alignment is crucial for excitation, while others explore the implications of polarization in terms of absorption and excitation without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the specific conditions under which excitation occurs, as well as the dependence on the orientation of the electric field relative to the molecular structure.

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Let's say I have a molecule with a carbonyl (C=O) group on it. Let's assume that the carbonyl group is positioned in a such a way that when we look at it the carbon is below the oxygen (so it's vertical). Therefore, it is stretching up and down.

What would happen if p-polarized light (E vector is vertical) is directed at the carbonyl group? S-polarized light (E vector is horizontal)?

I believe that the carbonyl stretch will be excited by the p-polarized light since both vectors are aligned. Nothing will happen to the C=O stretch if s-polarized light is directed at it since the vectors are perpendicular.

Am I on the right path?



Thanks
 
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I think in terms of diffraction gratings, with many parallel slits, or hydrocarbon chains. Let randomly polarized light pass through a first grating - yielding vertically polarized light - and then through a similar, second grating. The light remains vertically polarized. If, however, the second polarizer is oriented perpendicular (now horizontal) to the first, the light will effectively be blocked.
 
Loren Booda said:
I think in terms of diffraction gratings, with many parallel slits, or hydrocarbon chains. Let randomly polarized light pass through a first grating - yielding vertically polarized light - and then through a similar, second grating. The light remains vertically polarized. If, however, the second polarizer is oriented perpendicular (now horizontal) to the first, the light will effectively be blocked.
I think you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear enough. I wanted to know what happens to the carbonyl stretch.

Anyways, I think I know the answer now. If the electric dipole moment vector (u) is perpendicular to the Electric Field vector (in this case it would mean the light is s-polarized), then the dot product is zero (H' = u*E) and then H' = 0 (perturbed Hamiltonian).

The other case would be that H' is nonzero if the two vectors are not perpendicular. Therefore the carbonyl stretch would be excited.
 
Thanks for pointing that out. I tried to reason that if the incident polarization were perpendicular to the structure of the polarizer in question, the wave would be absorbed. In this logic of mine, which appears to be incorrect, the absorption would then indicate excitation. Your formula is more likely sound.
 

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