Existence of the Square Root Proof

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a proof from Apostol's Calculus regarding the existence of a unique nonnegative square root for every nonnegative real number. Participants are exploring specific steps in the proof, particularly the establishment of a set S and the application of the least upper bound (LUB) property, as well as the use of the binomial theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the inclusion of the term a/(1+a) in the set S, suggesting it produces a square of a fraction that is smaller than a.
  • Another participant confirms that a/(1+a) is in S because it is positive and demonstrates that a ≤ (1+a)² holds true, thereby supporting its inclusion.
  • A participant expresses frustration with the complexity of the proof, indicating a lack of understanding regarding the logic behind certain steps.
  • One participant introduces the intermediate value theorem and suggests that proving squaring is continuous suffices for the proof's requirements.
  • A later post indicates confusion about the derivation of a specific number used in testing LUB², questioning its origin and relevance.
  • Another participant acknowledges the use of binomial techniques but admits to struggling with the underlying logic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and confusion regarding different aspects of the proof. There is no consensus on the clarity of the proof or the reasoning behind specific steps, indicating multiple competing views and unresolved questions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their understanding of the proof, particularly concerning the assumptions made in the establishment of set S and the application of the LUB property. The discussion reflects a reliance on specific mathematical techniques that some participants find challenging to follow.

Ronnin
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I was playing trying to work through a proof in Apostol's Calculus and can't quite understand a step noted. This is from chapter 3, theorem 1.35. Every nonnegative real number has a unique nonnegative square root. The part where you are establishing the set S as nonempty so you can use LUB it is stated that a/(1+a) is in the set S. I've seen different choices for this on other versions of this proof. When I first looked at this I figured it was in S for the reason that that would produce a square of a fraction which would produce something smaller than a. But it looks like this is then used with the binomial theorem to finish off the proof. I don't follow it. Can someone walk me through the logic in this one?
 
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Indeed, \frac{a}{1+a} is in S because it is positive and because

\frac{a^2}{(1+a)^2}\leq a

To see this, note that this is equivalent to

a\leq (1+a)^2

or

a\leq 1+a^2+2a

And this is certainly true.
 
This book never ceases to make me feel stupid. Thanks Micro for making that clearer.
 
do you believe the intermediate value theorem? If so you only need to prove that squaring is continuous. since (a+h)^2 = a^2 + 2h + h^2, it is clear that making h small will make a^2 close to (a+h)^2. qed.
 
Now I'm lost again. We are trying to prove that the LUB^2 (LUB=b) cannot be any other value but a. From this point on I don't follow the proof at all. For instance to test if LUB^2>a he sets a number c=b-(b^2-a)/(2b). Where did that come from?
 
I know this is binomial trickery but I just don't see it. Any ideas?
 

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