Exit exam news: school board defies state

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Oakland school board's decision to grant diplomas to seniors who have not passed the state-required exit exam, in defiance of state law. Participants explore the implications of this decision, the fairness of exit exams, and the perceived effectiveness of the education system in California.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that granting diplomas without passing the exit exam undermines the value of education and the purpose of the exam itself.
  • Others express that it is unfair to deny graduation to students who have completed their education but failed a single test.
  • There is a contention regarding the nature of the exit exam, with some claiming it is too easy while others suggest that it does not accurately reflect the knowledge required of students.
  • Some participants propose that the education system focuses too heavily on teaching to the test rather than fostering genuine learning.
  • Concerns are raised about the integrity of the testing process, with some suggesting that the sample questions provided do not represent the actual difficulty of the exam.
  • Several posts express frustration with the education system, questioning the fairness of requiring a single test for graduation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the fairness or effectiveness of the exit exam or the board's decision. Disagreement exists regarding the implications of the exam and the educational standards it represents.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the historical context of the exit exam and its legislative background, as well as the financial state of the school district, which may influence the board's decision-making authority.

  • #31
franznietzsche said:
They might have a reasonable argument for a spanish language version of the test, depending on what you consider the test's purpose. If you consider the erbal portion to be intended merely for assessing verbal reasoning capacity, then it would be fine. If on the other hand you consider it meant to be a test of actual english comprehension, then it wouldn't be fine. Personally I think the former is more important.

Yah they should make a spanish version. It seems like there's a spanish version of everything else in this state so why not. I am sure that wouldn't stop the complaints however
 
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  • #32
One problem with the original post here. The students that failed the exit exam were given certificates of completion, instead of diplomas. They were allowed to attend graduation ceromonies.
 
  • #33
What's a passing score on this exit exam...typically ?
 
  • #34
Gokul43201 said:
What's a passing score on this exit exam...typically ?

When we received our score, it was "pass" or "fail". That's all they told my class. No score #'s
 
  • #35
Jeff Reid said:
One problem with the original post here. The students that failed the exit exam were given certificates of completion, instead of diplomas. They were allowed to attend graduation ceromonies.

Is the article incorrect then?

In Oakland, seniors who do not pass the exit exam also cannot participate in graduation ceremonies.
 
  • #36
They seem to be doing it on a district by district basis. Our district allowed the idiots to walk because their sense of self-satisfaction is worth more then their education.
 
  • #37
Pengwuino said:
Bulls***. I took the harder prototype test and IT IS THAT EASY. It was a joke. What i find even more annoying was that our class had to take the test as a complete surprise and we still rocked its world, no "teaching the test" crap either.

I have a feeling the activists say its too hard because they probably couldn't pass it themselves...
Yeah, if Pengwuino could pass the grammar part of the test, it must be pretty easy. :-p

People wouldn't be pushing to require these tests if the schools were uniformly graduating students with the basic skills one expects of a high school graduate. That's all these tests are really intended to do is find out if students actually are learning what the school says they learned. If a school has students with 4.0 averages who are failing a basic skills test, and there isn't some extraordinary circumstance to explain it (like the student was in the ER the night before and on pain medication for a broken leg during the exam) then someone needs to look into those schools and why they've cheated those students of a proper education and given them the false impression they are succeeding. And, if the students just aren't making the effort to learn in spite of quality lessons and teachers, then it prevents them from handing them diplomas they didn't earn; that really doesn't do anyone any favors.
 
  • #38
Moonbear said:
(like the student was in the ER the night before and on pain medication for a broken leg during the exam)

Which was highly probable at my high school for some reason! :smile: :smile: :smile: I don't know why but it seemed like some girl had broken her leg every other week or so...
 
  • #39
  • #40
Moonbear said:
If a school has students with 4.0 averages who are failing a basic skills test, and there isn't some extraordinary circumstance to explain it (like the student was in the ER the night before and on pain medication for a broken leg during the exam) then someone needs to look into those schools and why they've cheated those students of a proper education and given them the false impression they are succeeding.

That's what some are saying:

Siegel and his supporters believe that inadequate funding and a lack of quality teachers puts Oakland students at a disadvantage for passing the exam, which the state requires to get a diploma.

"It doesn't matter how many times we can take the test and how many years we have to prepare when our schools have been messed up since we were in kindergarten," said Leslie Santiago, a 17-year-old junior at MetWest High School in Oakland and one of about 25 students who attended the board meeting to support Siegel's resolution.

Here's a clue
Because the bankrupt district is under state control...

Coincidentally, I just wrote a response paper to Savage Inequalities, also about lack of equal opportunity in education (In East St. Louis and NYC). Those students had it worse off though, sewage flowing into their building and chemical spills in the city! My teacher was saying other states are appalled at the conditions of California schools, so maybe this is just another example.
 
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  • #41
Wow, smart enough to know that you're entire education has been inadaquit since kindergarten yet not smart enough to know basic algebra...
 
  • #42
Math Is Hard said:
I believe they only need to correctly answer 60 percent of the English-language questions and 55 percent of the math questions in order to pass.
I'd really like to see one of these people that are suing against the exam on grounds that it's unfairly hard. I'd commend them on having the guts to show their faces in public.
 
  • #43
Pengwuino said:
And what's this BS about kids having 4.0's and not being able to pass the exit exam? SOMETHINGS WRONG THERE! I don't know what's worse, that someone could be so stupid as to not pass the exit exam or that the system is so corrupt that someone could be so stupid as to not pass the exit exam yet still get a 4.0.

Where did it say anything about 4.0's?
 
  • #44
0TheSwerve0 said:
Where did it say anything about 4.0's?

Oh i just meant in the media in general, not that particular article.
 
  • #45
0TheSwerve0 said:
Where did it say anything about 4.0's?
Pengwuino was just helping to demonstrate the level of reading comprehension one can have and still pass the exam. :biggrin: (Sorry, Pengwuino, you're just too easy to pick on today. o:) )
 
  • #46
Moonbear said:
Pengwuino was just helping to demonstrate the level of reading comprehension one can have and still pass the exam. :biggrin: (Sorry, Pengwuino, you're just too easy to pick on today. o:) )

And today I am super depressed. I'm going to go kill myself now. thanks a lot! :cry: :cry: :cry:

Oh wait i have a job interview monday...
 
  • #47
Pengwuino said:
And today I am super depressed. I'm going to go kill myself now. thanks a lot! :cry: :cry: :cry:
Awww...sorry. Have another fish. It's only a day old (I got extra yesterday).

Oh wait i have a job interview monday...
Good luck! :smile:
 
  • #48
Moonbear said:
Good luck! :smile:

I have jury duty on the same day. I just realized this about 2 hours ago.
 
  • #49
0TheSwerve0 said:
Where did it say anything about 4.0's?
It happens, though. :frown:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/14191213p-15018112c.html
The legal challenge to the California High School Exit Exam filed last week was almost as predictable as the rising of the sun. There was no way the state was going to deny diplomas to thousands of otherwise qualified students without facing a suit. But it was still a shocker.

The suit's named plaintiffs include several Richmond High School seniors. One, Liliana Valenzuela, has a grade point average of 3.84; the suit says she's 12th in a class of 413 students. Another, Laura Echavarria, has a GPA of 4.0.

According to the complaint, both took the English-language Arts part of the test three times and failed it each time. In addition, the plaintiffs include eight or nine at other schools who had high averages and got praise from teachers, but couldn't pass either the English or math part of the test.
 
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  • #50
Pengwuino said:
I have jury duty on the same day. I just realized this about 2 hours ago.
As long as they aren't both scheduled for the same time...:rolleyes:
 
  • #51
Pengwuino said:
Wow, smart enough to know that you're entire education has been inadaquit since kindergarten yet not smart enough to know basic algebra...

Might see them more akin to illiterates than mentally handicapped people. No need to read, all you have to do is look around to compare the conditions of a poor public school versus a rich one.
 
  • #53
Those girls are probably suck ups and cheerleaders

in more way then one
 
  • #54
Math Is Hard said:
It happens, though. :frown:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/14191213p-15018112c.html
:bugeye: They shouldn't be suing the state for the exit exam, they should be suing the school for giving them unrealistic expectations and inflated grades. There's no reason, whatsoever, that a 4.0 student shouldn't be able to pass an English exam after 3 tries if those questions you showed are representative. I'd be curious if those students took the SAT, and what their verbal scores were on that. If there was a huge discrepancy between the two standardized exams, then I might question the exit exam (i.e., if you can test well on the SAT, but not the exit exam, maybe there is a problem with it), but if they corroborate one another, then it would make it clearer that the school's grading is the problem.
 
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  • #55
0TheSwerve0 said:
Might see them more akin to illiterates than mentally handicapped people. No need to read, all you have to do is look around to compare the conditions of a poor public school versus a rich one.

If you realize you aren't getting a good education.... there's a thing called taking the initiative and self-studying.
 
  • #56
Moonbear said:
:bugeye: They shouldn't be suing the state for the exit exam, they should be suing the school for giving them unrealistic expectations and inflated grades. There's no reason, whatsoever, that a 4.0 student shouldn't be able to pass an English exam after 3 tries if those questions you showed are representative. I'd be curious if those students took the SAT, and what their verbal scores were on that. If there was a huge discrepancy between the two standardized exams, then I might question the exit exam (i.e., if you can test well on the SAT, but not the exit exam, maybe there is a problem with it), but if they corroborate one another, then it would make it clearer that the school's grading is the problem.

I've known 4.28 students to get 1200's and 1100's on their SAT's
 
  • #57
Math Is Hard said:
It happens, though. :frown:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/14191213p-15018112c.html

Seems like it could be low local standards of education, not surprising if the ones in charge or teaching received a similar level of education. Or, they simply want more money for the school and need higher grades to receive it. The No Child Left Behind BS perpetuates a vicious cycle. Very American "pick yourself up by your own bootstraps" logic.
 
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  • #58
Math Is Hard said:
I don't know why everyone is so upset. It's not like you need a high school diploma to go to college or anything.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/e...&en=c871f0b01330eca9&ei=5094&partner=homepage
:rolleyes: Well, we've already seen the shift of jobs that used to just require a high school diploma starting to require a college degree when the value of a high school diploma weakened and the push to just graduate students who weren't qualified really started up, so if that keeps up, the next generation is going to require a master's degree just to be a secretary. (And yes, some of those jobs didn't even used to require a high school diploma, just an 8th grade education).

Why do people think it's a good thing to just keep pushing students further and further through the educational system without them actually acquiring the knowledge and skills required at each step? If you think education is truly important, which I do, then the answer is to make them go back and learn the foundations correctly before letting them move ahead.
 
  • #59
Pengwuino said:
If you realize you aren't getting a good education.... there's a thing called taking the initiative and self-studying.

True, but part of doing well is having other people expect you to do well. Students perform much better in an environment where they think someone actually cares whether or not they do. Plus, how well you can learn depends on the supplies you have. Besides teachers, you also need textbooks and supplies such as lab kits/tools, computers, etc. I don't know the specifics of the circumstance, but these lacks could explain it. I don't think you should underestimate the impact of teachers either, or peers to learn with. Home conditions and the physical conditions (e.g. temperature) have an impact on your brain.
 
  • #60
0TheSwerve0 said:
Very American "pick yourself up by your own bootstraps" logic.
Millions of destitute, impoverished kids do this in places where a textbook is a luxury, and America is next only to Paradise.
 

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