Exit exam news: school board defies state

[franznietzsche]

Yes, I am offering an alternate explanation because I think that you offer an inadequate one.

Probably because I didn't intend to offer any explanation. I don't pretend to be able to explain things I'm not qualified to comment on. I do want to be very clear though, that if you can't demonstrate competency, then you shouldn't get the diploma, period. Regardless of if it was fair. The fairness of the education system is a separate issue.

Again, I didn't say this was the only issue. I made no comment as to whether or not these students should get diplomas. I'm trying to show that that question ignores the reason why (the main issue I think) the students aren't qualified to get them. I thought you were being completely unfair, but I guess I did derail the thread. Seems logical comments should be saved for other forums...

The why is a separate issue. I recognize that, and I'm intentionally not directly addressing it, as it was not the issue of this thread. The issue was whether or not someone who cannot demonstrate the competency that the diploma is meant to recognize should be given one anyway. I claim they should not, otherwise the diploma is a meaningless piece of paper.

 

[Pengwuino]

Asian doesn't mean foreigner. It means ethnically asian. Not the same.

i guess i did phrase that a weeeee bit stupidly

 

[franznietzsche]

i guess i did phrase that a weeeee bit stupidly

Just a weee bit yes.

 

[Chi Meson]

Please don't ruin my day

First people complain high school graduates can't read and then they complain when they try to stop them from getting diplomas when they can't read... you can't win.

Thank God someone else noticed this!

People complain that kids aren't given enough homework, then people complain that kids have too much homework.

The paradoxes go on and on.

 

[Chi Meson]

Regarding the preceding posts that are starting to smoke:
I've said this before, that as a teacher I fully endorse the concept of linking a teacher's salerey to their performance. But as noted above, such asessment is difficult and it would require highly paid full-time asessors who would in turn require asessors.

Linking a teachers pay to the performance of students would ensure that certain areas will only get the worst teachers. What if a dentist was paid according to the condition of the teeth of his/her patients?

The most severe problems are in isolated pockets. The quickest remedy within these troubled pockets would be to offer extra stipends to teachers with superior qualifications, and limit class sizes to 15 or less within these troubled pockets, and extend school days until 5:00 (or longer) to include excercise, dinner, and supervised study periods.

The problems lie mostly with the micro-societies, that's where we need to aim. This would cost a lot of money, obviously, but it's still cheaper than incarceration.

 

[rcgldr]

What if a dentist was paid according to the condition of the teeth of his/her patients?

Then the two dentists in all of England would leave.

 

[franznietzsche]

Then the two dentists in all of England would leave.

Then the whole country would really be screwed.

 

[0TheSwerve0]

Probably because I didn't intend to offer any explanation. I don't pretend to be able to explain things I'm not qualified to comment on. I do want to be very clear though, that if you can't demonstrate competency, then you shouldn't get the diploma, period. Regardless of if it was fair. The fairness of the education system is a separate issue.



The why is a separate issue. I recognize that, and I'm intentionally not directly addressing it, as it was not the issue of this thread. The issue was whether or not someone who cannot demonstrate the competency that the diploma is meant to recognize should be given one anyway. I claim they should not, otherwise the diploma is a meaningless piece of paper.

I do agree with you about the diploma, no reason to give one if they don't earn it. But the passing comments made were unfair and dismissive. Just shows our general attitude towards people who don't do as well - that it's their own fault and they are inferior. This isn't a trivial matter.

 

[0TheSwerve0]

Maybe you didnt pass the reading comprehension test if 2 obvious words being left out threw you so far off track

A visit means nothing, teachers are normally oblivious to what really goes on in high schools as well. They are also quite naive to tell the truth. Kids can BS a teacher like you wouldn't believe! And of course money has an impact on education which raises hte point as to why does a state with soooooooooo much money being pumped into education come in near last place when they test students? And how do people in poor schools pass at all if they are all on fair ground?

When he visited the ESL school, there were classrooms full of students with no teachers. It was obvious that the school was inadequate. Are you saying those kids are lying or that teacher quality doesn't matter? Or are these just pearls of wisdom from your own experience? As for the money matter, a lot of it doesn't even go to school use because it gets tied up in bureaucracy. When it finally does, the administration spends it on improving basic necessities and playing catch up: improving building quality for one. Plus, not all schools receive equal funding. I agree, it is a stupid system that doesn't make sense.

Students that attend poor schools can pass for several reasons: they are intelligent and can teach themselves (not everyone can), the school has low standards so they are good enough in that situation, teachers falsify grades so they won't get fired.

 

[ray b]

use the GED test ,
if the students can't pass it after 12 years of school, NO DIPLOMA
same for higher learning can't pass the CLEP, NO CREDIT for the class
all states have tests for lawyers for example why should anyone get a
Dr of law if they can't pass the bar exam??

I would junk senority as a base for pay and use STUDENT surveys
to rate the better or worse teachers plus test results
the kids know who are the good or bad teachers
use tests and student surveys to get the poor teachers into another line of work

 

[Gokul43201]

Only indirectly related, but wow!

School pupils in Liberia have been threatened with a possible prison sentence if they cheat in their exams.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5048574.stm

 

[Math Is Hard]

Only indirectly related, but wow!

Yow! They don't mess around!

 

[Lisa!]

Only indirectly related, but wow!



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5048574.stm

eH, I guess they better turn countries to a big prison!

 

[0TheSwerve0]

Update

"It's graduation time in California high schools, and 'certificate' time for the 47,000 students who did NOT pass the state's new high school exit exam. That's creating some awkwardness at commencement ceremonies."

 

[scorpa]

I can't believe those practice questions that were posted. What a complete joke! We had covered everything on that by grade 7 and this is showing up on a high school exit exam? Personally I don't think students who can't pass the exam deserve the diploma, not passing the exam usually is a result of not working hard enough (or at all in most cases). I don't see why students who don't work hard or take anything seriously should graduate like the students who work hard at everything they have done do.

 

[Pengwuino]

I can't believe those practice questions that were posted. What a complete joke! We had covered everything on that by grade 7 and this is showing up on a high school exit exam? Personally I don't think students who can't pass the exam deserve the diploma, not passing the exam usually is a result of not working hard enough (or at all in most cases). I don't see why students who don't work hard or take anything seriously should graduate like the students who work hard at everything they have done do.

Your diploma doesn't mean that you have the minimum skill one acquires through 4 years of education. It only means you sat in a chair for 4 years. Duh

But seriously, yah... if anyone starts complaining in the future about "blah blah blah where did our country go so wrong in the educational system", we can look here for one part of the answer. Parts of the general public still have no idea why kids go to school.