Extending the Lagrangian of a double pendulum to more complex systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on extending the Lagrangian formulation of a double pendulum to more complex systems, specifically involving a cylinder and an upside-down cone. Participants explore the implications of these shapes and their interactions under gravitational influence, considering the dynamics of the system as it is tilted.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references an article for calculating the total kinetic energy of a double pendulum but seeks to adapt this for a system involving a cylinder and an upside-down cone.
  • Another participant asserts that gravity would cause the upside-down cone to topple off the cylinder, questioning the stability of the proposed system.
  • A subsequent post suggests considering the scenario where the cone and cylinder are connected, rather than merely stacked, to facilitate analysis.
  • One participant proposes treating the system as a double pendulum around its upright position, emphasizing the need to consider the mass center position of the cylinder in detail.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the stability of the cone when placed on the cylinder and whether the system can be effectively modeled as a double pendulum. There is no consensus on how to proceed with the Lagrangian formulation given these complexities.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not resolved the assumptions regarding the connection between the cone and cylinder, nor the implications of gravitational effects on the system's stability. The discussion remains open to various interpretations of the system's dynamics.

KataruZ98
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The total kinetic energy of a double pendulum can be calculated through the formule reported in the following article: https://dassencio.org/33

This works if the double pendulum in question is formed by two masses connected to each other and — one of them — to the point of origin by a "massless" rod. However, I'm interested in expanding this formula to cover systems where two bodies of more complex shapes are the swinging parts of the "double pendulum", if it possible that is.

Say I have a Cartesian plane, and at the origin point there's a cylinder of height H and radius R with the y-axis passing through the center of mass. On top of it is a cone placed upside down, with the center of mass also passing through the y-axis. Said cone has radius r and height h.

The cylinder is then tipped to the right, forming now an angle θ1 with the x-axis. As a consequence, the cone swings as well, producing an angle θ2 respect to the horizontal. It all happens within time t. How can I work out the Lagrangian from the data given?
 
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Gravity would topple the upside down cone and make it fall down from cylinder top.
 
Last edited:
anuttarasammyak said:
Gravity would topple the upside down cone and make it fall down from cylinder top.
Suppose for the sake of the argument that the two are connected, not simply placed one below the other.
 
Then we may regard it as double pendulum around its upright position of
\theta_1,\theta_2=\piforgetting surface contact of cylinder and cone. Cylinder mass center position should be considered for in detail.
 
Last edited:
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