Fall into Space-Time's Minimum Point

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Noctisdark
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Fall Space-time
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of spacetime in relation to gravitational fields, particularly focusing on the idea of minimum points in a curved spacetime manifold and how this affects the flow of time relative to observers in different gravitational contexts. The conversation touches on both Newtonian and general relativistic perspectives, exploring implications for time dilation and the behavior of clocks in various gravitational environments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the formula for free-falling objects in Newtonian gravitation suggests a minimum point in spacetime where one cannot fall further.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between extrinsic curvature of a trajectory and intrinsic curvature of spacetime.
  • One participant suggests that at the center of mass, time flows more slowly relative to observers further away, raising questions about the relationship between spacetime and the flow of time.
  • Another participant asserts that inside a hollow sphere, spacetime is flat, and questions arise about the rate at which clocks tick at different locations within the sphere.
  • There is a claim that clocks inside a hollow sphere tick at the same rate, but all tick more slowly than those outside the sphere.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of time and clocks in gravitational fields, particularly regarding the effects of being at the center of a mass versus the edge of a hollow sphere. The discussion remains unresolved with competing perspectives on the implications of spacetime curvature and clock rates.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about gravitational effects and the definitions of spacetime curvature that are not fully explored. The discussion also includes unresolved mathematical steps regarding the implications of the proposed models.

Noctisdark
Messages
224
Reaction score
35
Hi there, the most basic formula from Newtonian gravitation is, for a free falling object, x = gt^2/2, where x is the displacement in the vectical direction, in the case of general relativity, this just happens to be for weak gravitational fields, for the sake of simplicity (trying to express my thoughts) let's first talk about a weak one, gt^2/2 look like a parabola, so there is some extreme point which is the minimum, you cannot go further, if space time is a curved manifold too, then there must be some extreme points such the manifold is minimum (like the tip of U), one can say that if spacetime is like that, then we can fall onto it, until we reach that minimum point when we cannot fall anymore, is that point special, what does it represent, how is the time flow relative to other observers away from the curvature, how is space there?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Noctisdark said:
, gt^2/2 look like a parabola,...if space time is a curved manifold too,
You are confusing the extrinsic curvature of a trajectory with the intrinsic curvature of space time.

Noctisdark said:
if spacetime is like that, then we can fall onto it, until we reach that minimum point when we cannot fall anymore, is that point special, what does it represent, how is the time flow relative to other observers away from the curvature, how is space there?
At the center of the Earth you have a locally minimal clock rate.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Noctisdark
That local minimum clock rate exist at the center of mass, so at that point of space, time is running so slow relative to some observers, away from the center time is running somewhat "right" to them, so can i conclude that spacetime is a measure of how time flows at a point of space relative to an observer in a flat time ?, for that observer can he say that t = t(x,y,z)?,
 
Inside a hollow sphere there are no experienced gravitational accelerations. I take it though that a clock at the center ticks more slowly than one at the edge?
 
1977ub said:
Inside a hollow sphere there are no experienced gravitational accelerations.

Correct--more precisely, spacetime is flat.

1977ub said:
I take it though that a clock at the center ticks more slowly than one at the edge?

No. Clocks everywhere inside the hollow sphere tick at the same rate. But they all tick more slowly than clocks outside the sphere (and clocks outside the sphere tick more slowly the closer they are to the sphere's surface).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
3K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K
  • · Replies 37 ·
2
Replies
37
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
1K