Field vs Potential: E=-curl of V

  • Thread starter Thread starter astro2cosmos
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Field Potential
AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the relationship between electric fields and electric potential, specifically addressing the equation E = -curl V. It clarifies that while E is a vector quantity with three components, V is a scalar field that can contain sufficient information to generate the vector field through the gradient operator. The gradient of the scalar field produces a vector indicating the direction of greatest change, demonstrating that a scalar is not merely a one-dimensional vector. The independence of the electric field's components is also debated, noting that while they are orthogonally independent as vectors, their magnitudes can depend on spatial coordinates. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the mathematical relationships and definitions that govern these physical concepts.
astro2cosmos
Messages
71
Reaction score
0
if E=-curl of V, E is vector quantity(3 components) & V is scalar quantity (1 component) then how can one function possibly contain all the information that 3 independent function carry?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You have your operators mixed up. Curl only operates on other vectors and produces a vector. The relationship between the electric field and electric potential is through the gradient operator. The gradient operator acts on a scalar and produces a vector. Imagine a topographical map. A topographical map is a 2D plane that maps the vertical height of the landscape. The vertical height is shown by lines of iso-height (yeah, that's the wrong word but I mean lines that show a continuous line of constant height). The gradient operator, acting on the height, would produce vectors that are normal to these lines of iso-height, they point in the direction of greatest change in the scalar as a function of the coordinate axes.

So if our scalar is dependent upon three variables, say the three spatial coordinates, then the gradient would produce a vector that points in the direction of greatest change in the coordinate space.
 
astro2cosmos said:
if E=-curl of V, E is vector quantity(3 components) & V is scalar quantity (1 component) then how can one function possibly contain all the information that 3 independent function carry?
The first thing to point out is that a scalar isn't simply a one-dimensional vector, so it itsn't really correct to say a scalar has one component. Secondly, the curl operator on acts on vector fields. Finally, it is very easy for a scalar field to contain all the information necessary to generate a vector field. For example, the gradient of a scalar field is defined as,

\nabla V\left(x,y,z\right) = \left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial x},\;\frac{\partial V}{\partial y},\; \frac{\partial V}{\partial z}\right)

Hence, the gradient of a scalar field results in a vector which represents how fast the scalar field V is changing in the directions parallel to the three axes.

Do you see?

Edit: I see that I was beaten to it.
 
Hootenanny said:
The first thing to point out is that a scalar isn't simply a one-dimensional vector, so it itsn't really correct to say a scalar has one component. Secondly, the curl operator on acts on vector fields. Finally, it is very easy for a scalar field to contain all the information necessary to generate a vector field. For example, the gradient of a scalar field is defined as,

\nabla V\left(x,y,z\right) = \left(\frac{\partial V}{\partial x},\;\frac{\partial V}{\partial y},\; \frac{\partial V}{\partial z}\right)

Hence, the gradient of a scalar field results in a vector which represents how fast the scalar field V is changing in the directions parallel to the three axes.

Do you see?

Edit: I see that I was beaten to it.

yes you may right, but is it right to say that the 3 components of electric field are independent??
 
astro2cosmos said:
but is it right to say that the 3 components of electric field are independent??
In what sense? What equation are you using to determine the electric field?
 
Independent in what way? As vector components they are orthogonally independent. As functions, the magnitude of a vector component can be dependent upon the other spatial coordinates. That is, the x-component of the electric field can still be dependent or indepedent of the x, y, and/or z coordinates.

EDIT: Curses! Hootenanny wins this round.
 
Hi there, im studying nanoscience at the university in Basel. Today I looked at the topic of intertial and non-inertial reference frames and the existence of fictitious forces. I understand that you call forces real in physics if they appear in interplay. Meaning that a force is real when there is the "actio" partner to the "reactio" partner. If this condition is not satisfied the force is not real. I also understand that if you specifically look at non-inertial reference frames you can...
I have recently been really interested in the derivation of Hamiltons Principle. On my research I found that with the term ##m \cdot \frac{d}{dt} (\frac{dr}{dt} \cdot \delta r) = 0## (1) one may derivate ##\delta \int (T - V) dt = 0## (2). The derivation itself I understood quiet good, but what I don't understand is where the equation (1) came from, because in my research it was just given and not derived from anywhere. Does anybody know where (1) comes from or why from it the...
Back
Top