Filtering problem. Help with the output

  • Thread starter Thread starter ppoonamk
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Output
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the output of a signal processed by a specific filter characterized by given transfer functions. Participants explore the implications of Fourier series representations, phase filters, and convolution operations, focusing on the mathematical transformations involved.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Fourier series representation provided in the problem is incorrect for the rectangular pulse train, suggesting that the summation limits and coefficient definitions need correction.
  • It is noted that the coefficients for the Fourier series should be denoted as c_n rather than a_n, with specific values assigned to even and odd indices.
  • One participant mentions that the phase filter effectively transforms sine components into cosine components, indicating a relationship between the input and output of the filter.
  • A participant points out a potential typo in the filter definition, suggesting it should include a complex exponential.
  • Another participant proposes examining the filter's behavior term by term on the Fourier series to understand the output better.
  • There is a discussion about expressing the output of the filter in terms of its Fourier series, with an example provided for clarity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the correctness of the Fourier series representation and the definitions of coefficients. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on the proper formulation or output of the filter.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved mathematical steps related to the Fourier series and the implications of the phase filter. The discussion also highlights dependencies on the definitions of terms and the assumptions made about the signal being processed.

ppoonamk
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
1. Homework Statement

Determine the output if this signal is processed by a filter with the following transfer
functions:
u= \sum_{k=-\infty}^\infty c_n*exp(j*\pi*n*x)= \sum_{k=-\infty}^\infty rect(x-2k-.5)

c_n = 0 for even
= 4/(j*\pi*n) for odd
Determine the output if this signal is processed by a filter with the following transfer
functions:
a) H(\xi)=exp{\phi(\xi)}
\phi(\xi)= \pi/2 ; \xi>0
0; \xi=0
-\pi/2 ; \xi<0



Homework Equations



f(x)= 2*rect(x-.5) \otimes .5 comb(x/2)
\otimes- convolution.

The Attempt at a Solution



f(x) is a series of rect functions of width 1 and centered at .5, 2.5,-1.5 etc
In the frequency domain F(\xi) is a shifted since envelope with delta functions at .5 intervals.

F(\xi)=2* sinc(\xi)* exp(-i*pi*\xi).comb( 2*\xi)

The filter H(\xi) is a phase filter which is equal to 1 at \xi=0, i for \xi >0 and -i for \xi<0

G(\xi)= H(\xi)* F(\xi)
I can't figure out what G(\xi) and g(x) {inverse fft} looks like. Please help me
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
ppoonamk said:
1. Homework Statement

Determine the output if this signal is processed by a filter with the following transfer
functions:
u= \sum_{k=0}^\infty a_n*exp{j*\pi*n*x}= \sum_{k=-\infty}^\infty rect(x-2k-.5)

a_n = 0 for even
= 4/(j*\pi*n)

Before you start you need to correct some mistakes in the question. The given Fourier series is incorrect for given rectangular pulse train (I'm assuming that it is a rectangular pulse train and that the sum from k=infinity to infinity was a typo - which I corrected in the quote).

Also

1. If you're going to use the complex exponential form of the series on that real time function then you'll need to sum from a_n from -infinity to infinity, not from zero to infinity.

2. a_n = 0 for n even, except for a_0 which equals 1/2.

3. a_n = 1/(j n \pi) for n odd.

4. We usually denote the coefficients of the complex series as c_n (a_n is usually reserved for the real cosine series).
 
Last edited:
uart said:
Before you start you need to correct some mistakes in the question. The given Fourier series is incorrect for given rectangular pulse train (I'm assuming that it is a rectangular pulse train and that the sum from k=infinity to infinity was a typo - which I corrected in the quote).

Also

1. If you're going to use the complex exponential form of the series on that real time function then you'll need to sum from a_n from -infinity to infinity, not from zero to infinity.

2. a_n = 0 for n even, except for a_0 which equals 1/2.

3. a_n = 1/(j n \pi) for n odd.

4. We usually denote the coefficients of the complex series as c_n (a_n is usually reserved for the real cosine series).

Hi,

Thank you for correcting the typo. The series can alternatively be expressed in terms of rect and that is what I have been working on. Could you help me with the output of the filter. I know the phase change should the change the sines into cosines. I can understand what is happening but I can't figure out the math behind it
 
ppoonamk said:
Hi,

Thank you for correcting the typo. The series can alternatively be expressed in terms of rect and that is what I have been working on. Could you help me with the output of the filter. I know the phase change should the change the sines into cosines. I can understand what is happening but I can't figure out the math behind it

Yes I agree that the series can alternatively be represented as a single rectangular pulse convolved with an impulse train. However since the problem gave the Fourier series I thought perhaps that was how they wanted you do deal with it.

You realize that with the Fourier series your "phase filter" (also known as a Hilbert transform filter) simply turns each sine component to an equivalent cosine component.
 
Last edited:
BTW. There is also a typo in your filter definition.

H(\xi)=exp{\phi(\xi)}

In my previous response I've assumed that you meant to write:

H(\xi)=exp{j \phi(\xi)}
 
H(ξ)=exp{jϕ(ξ)}

Yes you are right. Sorry about having so many errors. This was the first time I was using latex.
A gentle bounce. Can anyone help me?
 
Look at how your filter behaves, term (pair) by term (pair), on the Fourier series.

Input term: \frac{\exp(j k \pi x) - \exp(-j k \pi x)}{j k} = \frac{2 \sin(k \pi x)} {k \pi}

Output term: \frac{\exp(j k \pi x + j \pi/2) - \exp(-j k \pi x - j \pi/2)}{j k \pi} = \frac{2 \cos(k \pi x)} {k \pi}

The easiest way to express the output of that filter is in terms of its Fourier series.

Here's a plot of the first 50 terms of the FS of both input and output.
 

Attachments

  • hilbert.png
    hilbert.png
    7.7 KB · Views: 500
Last edited:

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K