Find the order of the pole of a function

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the order of a pole for a function involving trigonometric expressions and their substitutions. The original poster mentions a singular point and attempts to relate it to the pole at another variable substitution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between poles in different variable substitutions and question the validity of their reasoning. There are attempts to use series expansions and to clarify the implications of these expansions on the order of the poles.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on using series expansions to analyze the function, while others express uncertainty about their conclusions and seek clarification on the implications of their findings. The discussion reflects a mix of interpretations and attempts to reconcile different approaches.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a potential confusion regarding the degree of zeros in the context of trigonometric functions and how this relates to the order of poles. Participants are navigating through the implications of their substitutions and the resulting expressions.

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I learned that ##f## has another singular point at ##z=1.715##, but i don't think this would be related to the pole at ##z=0##

I tried substitutine ##u=2\cos z-2+z^2##

and $$f(u)=\frac{1}{u^2}$$ has a pole of order 2 at ##u=0## which happens i.f.f. ##z=0## or ##z=1.715##.

so ##f## has a pole of second order at ##u=0## equivalent to ##z=0##.
 
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to be honest i feel ilke my logic is shaky at the conclusion.. I'm not sure how to draw the connection between the the orders of the pole at u=0 and the pole at z=0. like they are the equivalent pole of ##f## so its order stays the same during the ##u## substitution?
 
Have you considered using the series expansion of the cosine?
 
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fresh_42 said:
Have you considered using the series expansion of the cosine?
trying the series expansion of the cosine:

$$f=\frac{1}{(2\cos z-2+z^2)^2}=\frac{1}{(2(1-\frac{z^2}{2!}+\cdots)-2+z^2)^2}=\frac{1}{(\frac{2z^4}{4!}-\cdots)^2}$$
$$\frac{1}{z^8(\frac{2}{4!}-\cdots)^2}$$

$$f=\frac{g}{z^8}\quad\text{with}\quad g=\frac{1}{(\frac{2}{4!}-\cdots)^2}$$

$$g(0)=144\neq 0$$. ##z=0## is an 8th order pole of ##f##!
 
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That looks good to me.

To make a somewhat silly counterexample to your first attempt, ##f(z)=1/(z^2)^2##, let ##u=z^2##, then ##f(u)=1/u^2##. The problem is the ##u## that you picked has a zero of order 4 at ##z=0##.
 
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docnet said:
trying the series expansion of the cosine:

$$f=\frac{1}{(2\cos z-2+z^2)^2}=\frac{1}{(2(1-\frac{z^2}{2!}+\cdots)-2+z^2)^2}=\frac{1}{(\frac{2z^4}{4!}-\cdots)^2}$$
$$\frac{1}{z^8(\frac{2}{4!}-\cdots)^2}$$

$$f=\frac{g}{z^8}\quad\text{with}\quad g=\frac{1}{(\frac{2}{4!}-\cdots)^2}$$

$$g(0)=144\neq 0$$. ##z=0## is an 8th order pole of ##f##!
You can check it with WolframAlpha:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=f(z)=z^7/(2cos+z+-2++z^2)^2
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=f(z)=z^8/(2cos+z+-2++z^2)^2
 
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Office_Shredder said:
That looks good to me.

To make a somewhat silly counterexample to your first attempt, ##f(z)=1/(z^2)^2##, let ##u=z^2##, then ##f(u)=1/u^2##. The problem is the ##u## that you picked has a zero of order 4 at ##z=0##.
would you mind please explaining this more?
 
docnet said:
would you mind please explaining this more?

When you reduced f to ##f(u)=1/u^2##, your ##u(z)## was a function that looked like ##z^4##, so you couldn't use the order of the pole of ##f(u)## to compute the order of the pole of ##f(z)##, because ##u(z)## had a high degree zero at 0, i e. Looked like ##z^4##.

If it's still not clear I wouldn't worry too much about it, as long as you understand the technique in your first post doesn't work and you have to do a series expansion to get the answer.
 
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Office_Shredder said:
When you reduced f to ##f(u)=1/u^2##, your ##u(z)## was a function that looked like ##z^4##, so you couldn't use the order of the pole of ##f(u)## to compute the order of the pole of ##f(z)##, because ##u(z)## had a high degree zero at 0, i e. Looked like ##z^4##.

If it's still not clear I wouldn't worry too much about it, as long as you understand the technique in your first post doesn't work and you have to do a series expansion to get the answer.
Sorry I'm still not understanding. how does one compute the degree of the sine funciton? does ##u=2\sin z - 2 +z^2## have a degree of 2? I'm confused and I don't know how to find a degree of a zero
 
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docnet said:
Sorry I'm still not understanding. how does one compute the degree of the sine funciton? does ##u=2\sin z - 2 +z^2## have a degree of 2? I'm confused and I don't know how to find a degree of a zero

It's just the same way you computed the order of the pole. Although you flipped cosine with sine.

##2\cos(z) -2+z^2 = z^4g(z)## where ##g(0)## is not zero, so this is a zero of order 4. I was calling it a zero of degree 4 but I think that's not actually standard terminology, sorry.
 

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