Finding Anti-Derivative of sin(3u(t)) w/ Unknown u(t)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the anti-derivative of the integral \(\int \sin(3u(t)) dt\) where \(u(t)\) is an unknown function of time. Participants explore various methods of integration and the implications of \(u(t)\) being unknown, touching on both theoretical and practical aspects of integration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the method of integration depends on the nature of \(u(t)\), noting that many elementary functions could lead to a nonelementary integral.
  • One participant proposes that if \(u(t)\) is completely unknown, it may be possible to integrate using terms like \(u'(t)\), although they acknowledge this approach may not be correct.
  • Another participant states that if \(u(t)\) is more complex than a linear function, the integral will likely involve error functions.
  • Examples are provided, indicating that if \(u(t) = t\) or \(u(t) = kt + b\) (where \(k\) and \(b\) are constants), the anti-derivative could be correctly derived.
  • Participants inquire about error functions, seeking clarification and examples of situations where they arise in integration.
  • A participant shares their experience with finding exact errors from numerical solutions of different orders, indicating a practical engagement with the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of integrating when \(u(t)\) is unknown, with some suggesting it is possible under certain conditions while others argue it leads to complexities such as error functions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to take in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the specific form of \(u(t)\) and the potential for the integral to become nonelementary based on the complexity of \(u(t)\). The discussion also highlights the need for further clarification on error functions and their applications in integration.

Jwill
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What method of integration would I use to find the anti-derivative of

[tex]\int sin(3u(t)) dt[/tex]

when

[tex]u(t)[/tex]

Is and unknown function of time?
 
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It depends, because there are many elementary functions that U could be that would make this a nonelementary integral.
 
I mean if

[tex]u(t)[/tex]

is completely unknown, is there no way to just generally integrate it even using terms like

[tex]u'(t)[/tex]?


[tex]\frac{-1}{3u'(t)}cos(3u(t))[/tex]
seems to be sort of close if you differentiate it... But this is an incorrect usage of U substitution.
 
If u(t) is unknown, you can not integrate numerically, and in general
if u(t) is anything more complex than a linear function in t, the integral
will involve error functions.

For example, if u(t) = t, your antiderivative in post # 3 would be correct.
Similarly if u(t) = kt +b with k and b constants
 
What do you mean by error functions? Could you give me an example of such a situation? I am not exact familiar with that.
 
Jwill said:
What do you mean by error functions? Could you give me an example of such a situation? I am not exact familiar with that.

Go to www.wolframAlpha.com

Type in " integral e^ (3x^2) dx " [omit quotes] and hit return.
See the erf error function in the answer ?

Then clear and

Type in erf x and hit return
Put the cursor over the lower right "erf is the error function"
and click on definitionNote that if you change 3x^2 to 3x, the error function is not needed.
 
Okay, thanks. I know what you mean now... I actually feel kinda stupid lol. I've actually found exact error from numerical solutions of different orders.
 

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