Finding Critical Points Of A Function

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the critical points of the function f(x,y) = sin(x) + sin(y) + sin(x+y) within the specified bounds of 0 ≤ x ≤ 2π and 0 ≤ y ≤ 2π. Participants are exploring methods to identify minima and maxima without employing Lagrange multipliers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the calculation of partial derivatives and the implications of equating them to zero to find critical points. There is a focus on the relationship cos(x) = cos(y) and the challenge of selecting appropriate points to solve the equations. Some participants express confusion regarding the correctness of the initial derivatives and their impact on subsequent calculations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants questioning the accuracy of the initial derivatives and their effects on the critical point analysis. There is acknowledgment of errors in the first derivatives, and some participants are considering how to proceed with the corrected information. Guidance has been offered regarding the next steps to take after establishing the relationship between x and y.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of not using Lagrange multipliers and are attempting to navigate through potential errors in their calculations. The discussion reflects a mix of interpretations and approaches to the problem, with no explicit consensus reached on the method to find the critical points.

Lancelot59
Messages
640
Reaction score
1
I'm trying to find the minimia and maxima of the following function without using LaGrange multipliers:

f(x,y)=sin(x)+sin(y)+sin(x+y)
where:
0\leq x \leq 2\Pi
0\leq y \leq 2\Pi

Partial derivatives:
f_{x}=cos(y)+cos(x+y)
f_{y}=cos(x)+cos(x+y)

f_{xx}=-sin(x+y)
f_{xy}=-sin(y)-sin(x+y)
f_{yy}=-sin(x+y)

Now I have no clue how to get all the critical points. I simplified it using fx=0, fy=0, to get fx=fy. Equating and simplifying I got cos(x)=cos(y), x=y.

Now this is where I get lost. How do you pick points to try and solve the equations? I could say that cos(x)=cos(y), then cos(x)-cos(y)=0. So you could pick x or y to be pi/2 or 3pi/2.

However the solution manual to my textbook does not use any of these points...so how does this work?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Lancelot59 said:
I'm trying to find the minimia and maxima of the following function without using LaGrange multipliers:

f(x,y)=sin(x)+sin(y)+sin(x+y)
where:
0\leq x \leq 2\Pi
0\leq y \leq 2\Pi

Partial derivatives:
f_{x}=cos(y)+cos(x+y)
f_{y}=cos(x)+cos(x+y)
You got off to a bad start. The two first partials are incorrect.
fx = cos(x) + cos(x + y)
fy = cos(y) + cos(x + y)

Because of this error, there are errors in your second partials as well.
Lancelot59 said:
f_{xx}=-sin(x+y)
f_{xy}=-sin(y)-sin(x+y)
f_{yy}=-sin(x+y)

Now I have no clue how to get all the critical points. I simplified it using fx=0, fy=0, to get fx=fy. Equating and simplifying I got cos(x)=cos(y), x=y.

Now this is where I get lost. How do you pick points to try and solve the equations? I could say that cos(x)=cos(y), then cos(x)-cos(y)=0. So you could pick x or y to be pi/2 or 3pi/2.

However the solution manual to my textbook does not use any of these points...so how does this work?
 
Mark44 said:
You got off to a bad start. The two first partials are incorrect.
fx = cos(x) + cos(x + y)
fy = cos(y) + cos(x + y)

Because of this error, there are errors in your second partials as well.
WolframAlpha agrees with me.
Partial X
Partial Y
 
Lancelot59 said:
WolframAlpha agrees with me.
Partial X
Partial Y

Take a careful look at what you wrote for the first derivatives in your first post, what Mark44 wrote, and what wolframalpha is giving you. I assure you wolframalpha agrees with Mark44 (and that the error affects your second derivatives).
 
DAH! That would do it...

So if fx=fy

cos(x)+cos(x+y)=cos(y)+cos(x+y)
cos(x)=cos(y)
x=y

Now what?
 
Lancelot59 said:
DAH! That would do it...

So if fx=fy

cos(x)+cos(x+y)=cos(y)+cos(x+y)
cos(x)=cos(y)
x=y

Now what?

Plug y=x back into f_x=0 to figure out what x (and hence y) must be. To determine if the point is a min or a max you need to recompute the partial derivatives, as the second derivatives in the first post are incorrect because you initially mixed up f_x and f_y. Then, calculate the value of the Hessian matrix to see if it's a min, max or saddle.
 
I got it. Thanks!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
5K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K