Finding Lagrangian for Overhanging String on Frictionless Table

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the Lagrangian for a system involving an overhanging string on a frictionless table, with specific masses assigned to parts of the system. Participants are exploring the relationship between kinetic and potential energy in the context of Lagrangian mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster questions whether a Lagrangian can be found for a system where kinetic energy is presumed to be zero. Participants discuss the implications of potential energy being zero and inquire about the relevance of Lagrangian mechanics to a statics problem.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights regarding the nature of kinetic and potential energy in this context, suggesting that if the system is static, the Lagrangian may not be applicable. There is an ongoing exploration of the relationship between Lagrangian mechanics and static systems, with some participants expressing a desire to apply concepts from calculus and physics to this problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the assignment's context within a statics class and express a desire to engage with dynamic concepts, raising questions about the applicability of Lagrangians to non-moving systems.

Boltzman Oscillation
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Homework Statement


B is 10kg
C is 20kg
can I find a lagrangian for this system? If so how?

Diagram: http://imgur.com/j811rzw
j811rzw

Homework Equations


L=T-V
Kinetic = .5mv^2
Potential = mgh

The Attempt at a Solution


I know the kinetic energy must be 0 right? How could I find the potential?
 
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Hi Boltzmann Oscillation and welcome to PF.

Yes, the kinetic energy is zero. If you take the zero of potential energy to be at the same height as the lights, the potential energy will also be zero, so the Lagrangaian is zero. May I ask why you are looking for the Lagrangian in relation to a statics problem?
 
kuruman said:
Hi Boltzmann Oscillation and welcome to PF.

Yes, the kinetic energy is zero. If you take the zero of potential energy to be at the same height as the lights, the potential energy will also be zero, so the Lagrangaian is zero. May I ask why you are looking for the Lagrangian in relation to a statics problem?
I have statics class and this was assigned but I am quite bored with statics. I want to apply what I've learned in calculus and physics courses. Lagrangian are only used for moving objects? Thank you so much for the help.
 
Boltzmann Oscillation said:
Lagrangian are only used for moving objects? Thank you so much for the help.
Lagrangians are used to find equations of motion and if something is not moving, well ...

If you want a diversion from statics and SOH-CAH-TOA, try this simple problem using a Lagrangian:
A uniform supple string of length ##L## and mass ##m## is held on a frictionless table with one of its ends overhanging the edge of the table. The overhanging length is ##\alpha L## (##\alpha<1##). The mass is released at time t = 0. Find the time it takes for the rope to fall off the table. Check your answer in the limiting cases ##\alpha=0## and ##\alpha=1##.
 

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